zondag 1 november 2009
New forum for Subdreamer users check it out
As the sites states http://subdreamerforum.com/
A non-commerical, free speech site for editorial commentary on Subdreamer.com CMS
SubdreamerForums.com meets U.S. Federal Guidelines as a Free Speech site without infringing on Subdreamer LLC's trademarks.
A non-commerical, free speech site for editorial commentary on Subdreamer.com CMS
SubdreamerForums.com meets U.S. Federal Guidelines as a Free Speech site without infringing on Subdreamer LLC's trademarks.
Updates,
Always nice to say "i told ya so.." as is this. Subdreamer failed once more in delivering what they promised. SD3 will not be here for a while and i seriously think they are about to close the forums as well to silence the crowds.
In my quest to save others from spending money on a product that fails and lacks everything i am posting these messages. Here is the latest is the saga around SD3.
Long page ahead as it is 6 pages taken from this thread http://www.subdreamer.com/forum/printthread.php?t=15930
Why do i post this? It will be deleted from the forums and therefore i think you should be able to read it anyway..
-------------
Geiri 10-13-2009 07:53 PM
Can subdreamer 3 compete with vBulletin CMS?
vBulletin is Announcing the Presale Event for vBulletin 4.0 Suite
Can Subdreamer compete now and in the feature? :unsure:
http://www.vbulletin.com
animedreamz 10-14-2009 03:27 AM
I doubt it the only thing I see them having in common is same login. The features of vb cms are on joomla's level or better and with a full coder base for free mods(unlike the SD coder base) it will be more or less useful to those who like me dont want to spent $250 to upgrade. I will say SD will be cheaper but in comparison to the suite $280 for the full Vb4 term is way better then $40 every year and it includes all Vb4 mods (impex, blog, project tools). For now we will have to see just how they stack up on a CMS to CMS level as I'm sure most users here use IPB or phpbb or mybb a bit more the Vb you took the thread right from my mind we think a like. I hope the template engine for SD3 is database driven like thy said it would be and I am putting off my sites release to see how it stacks up to joomla, and now with Vb4 near release I will weigh in on how it stacks up against its new CMS.
barsa 10-14-2009 03:40 AM
I was just about to post this, VB offered me to upgrade for $130 (valid till end of this month) but im still have hopes in SD 3.x - i'm still waiting.
animedreamz 10-14-2009 03:50 AM
Same here I used SD for a while then I quit web dev for a while and then noticed 2.6 beta for a year and tried SD again with hopes its code changed but nope. Lets see how they stack up I dont want the vb suite but I will if I have to and joomla is my other option if SD doesn't deliver a solid system. At least vbsuite will run off one database using the same tables all around with a few added. I wonder how well it is guarded for table locks or crashes on large sites its like a race to see who releases first lets hope SD does and maybe some more coders come to dev mods for SD who knows the winds of change are blowing lets see if SD will still stand after the storm.
olijo 10-14-2009 04:46 AM
I think Joomla is good but the problem is for the manage of the groups and athorization, it's my way.
I've got two site who propulsed by joomla, and i don't have problem except managing groups.
animedreamz 10-14-2009 04:56 AM
Yeah with vbulletin its a pain I use a bridge and it works great except your account names cant be the same on both once you use the bridge you will get an error and cant login other then that it works fine.
vynnus 10-14-2009 07:48 AM
I still preffer the simplicity and flexibility of Subdreamer although I recognize VB has a lot more features and stuff, most of them not really necessary for some. That's my opinion.
arturb 10-14-2009 08:17 AM
I have 10 sites on SD and adding more, VB Publisher is yet to be fully tested so it's too early to tell how good it really is. It's almost 3 times the price, so I would expect it to be 3 times as good as Subdreamer and it's not that as far as I can tell.
Geiri 10-14-2009 02:43 PM
For use that use vb as our forum
We must recognize that vBulletin community is strong and there are lots of free themes and plugins
I do not think the price is high in the vB-suite you are paying for the cms,blog and the forum but there are cons for one there are no importers for content and even if you choose not to use vb-cms you are locked in and you must upgrade the suite you can not just decide to use the forum and upgrade at the forums price.
I think I will wait and stick with Subdreamer... although I see some serious competition ahead at least with product updates :)
Terminator1138 10-14-2009 05:27 PM
Well I put a lot into SD CMS....now without updates and over years of slow development, but thanks to many free developers, it was turning into a greater system. However Vbulletin has a lot going for them on this project.
Not to mention the other free download site that offers a lot just for the forums, now imagine all those ppl playing with a cms as well...means lots of free content to utilize...and yes great themes.
Upgrade from active vb forum is only 120 bucks just released that info today.
SD is 99 for just pro license BUT.....the support kills you here w/ an additional 40 bucks which puts it for me over the CMS suite and I get more.
Will it take business away, Yep, those who use vb, but SD will keep those who have IPB since they are slow to develop their CMS....and SMF and phpBB....but keep in mind, the longer it takes to roll out SD each year, the more others make up for it.
animedreamz 10-14-2009 05:44 PM
I agree with you Terminator1128. SD used to be great but look at the screen shots of Vb4 CMS its interface is way better then SD's screen cap both in design and feature set. Like I said on vb.com it more like joomla even down to how it looks which is great, theres more structure based options. Lets not down SD until we have seen SD3 in action they made the new main site using it which is an improvement over the old site but I'm starting to wonder if its a new concept or is it just a code fix for 2.6. They said there would be a 2.7 release but they never came through on that either. There hurting there own rep by lying and carring on as they have. If SD 3 flops SD needs to close no one will want to wait another year for software that works less then freeware.
Terminator1138 10-15-2009 07:49 AM
yep, true I have yet to see SD 3 in action.
ultimately, time will tell....
hannay 10-15-2009 10:45 AM
SD's 31 Oct deadline is my deadline with SD I think. If nothing comes then, I'm off elsewhere. I think members here have been VERY patient, and for NOTHING in a long time. VB's CMS does look very tempting.
signalzero 10-15-2009 10:53 AM
If nothing else they are offering FREE LIFETIME SUPPORT.
VBulletin has just stepped up to the plate and are delivering a product.
They had the best forum and all you needed was a CMS to integrate the two.
I see nothing but SEXY from their screen shots ....
http://files.vbulletin.com/images/ca...ion_inline.png
olijo 10-15-2009 01:04 PM
here is the CMS home page of vB
http://files.vbulletin.com/images/ca...s/CMS_home.png
Mr_Bob 10-15-2009 11:43 PM
Pretty much all along the lines of what I'm thinking. I'll be honest, I purchased the Suite upgrade; it was only $130 and offers me enhanced support for life + free updates for the entire Vbulletin 4 series. From what has been disused in numerous blog posts by developers, the screenshots, etc of the VB CMS it has all the features of Subdreamer with the added bonuses of being well supported and much more modern in both features and design.
I have two SD licenses at the present; the one license I run on a site with Vbulletin I will likely no longer utilize. Simply put, SD as a company has been rather unreliable over the last few years with VERY little updates.
So, as for advice for SD, if they really want to continue to compete in the market they need to do a much better job with software updates and customer / coder relations.
There, my two cents :).
Terminator1138 10-16-2009 12:02 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by hannay (Post 88191)
SD's 31 Oct deadline is my deadline with SD I think. If nothing comes then, I'm off elsewhere. I think members here have been VERY patient, and for NOTHING in a long time. VB's CMS does look very tempting.
keep in mind the presale of vb is just before that as well so if you want to save, you have to preorder by end of this month as well....
Terminator1138 10-16-2009 12:03 PM
And...with better forum integration like post buttons on their forum to create article is a feature I love for better interaction.
Terminator1138 10-16-2009 05:44 PM
Got an email about IPB releasing their CMS as well.....I've looked at it long ago when they first mentioned it but not sure about it now...plus I already use VB so a switch to their forum is a bit much.
animedreamz 10-16-2009 07:32 PM
Lolz yeah the new cms looks so much like the joomla article interface its not even funny. The best part is seamless integration, I'm upgrade after the holidays after its been tested and reviewed by a few more vb users. I see it coming around christmas time or early jan. I hope SD comes with a great product. If they dont deliver the product on the 31st and then dont post an announcement I'm leaving SD for good for joomla and then after feb I'll move to Vb CMS.
signalzero 10-17-2009 02:38 PM
Woo Hoo. For one of my last sites running vbulletin, I got my pre-order...
So long SD :(...
cykelmyggen 10-17-2009 03:21 PM
SD will probably deliver a real funky CMS, if not within the scheduled date, then before 2010. The real competition lies between the sizes and the activities of the communities following vB and SD. The much larger community following vB will be able to deliver a huge number of free mods/add-ons/plugins. As it is for now, SD has stated that only the basic plugins will be built into SD 3.0 - the community and the businesses around the product will have to take care of all further development of extensions. I'm having my doubts wether the diminishing community of SD will be able to make a comeback due to the long period of low activity on the CMS. I hope so though, because I love SD due to its simplicity and ease of use.
Loneweb 10-19-2009 12:50 AM
One would think... SD would address the concerns of this thread.. give some sort of idea if its still on track.. how it will integrate with vb4...if it will at all...I have preordered vb4 already.. but dont plan on upgrading my site untill i give it a good testing.
Elvis 10-19-2009 02:29 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by cykelmyggen (Post 88206)
... if not within the scheduled date, then before 2010.
... that would be one more broken promise! I do not think the SD company will get my trust back with that!
Geiri 10-19-2009 02:00 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Loneweb (Post 88210)
One would think... SD would address the concerns of this thread.. give some sort of idea if its still on track.. how it will integrate with vb4...
Lets hope they are to busy making Sd 3 ready to do it :)
signalzero 10-19-2009 08:32 PM
"They" really ? I think its more appropriate to say he.
amasilviama 10-20-2009 09:16 AM
My past experience tought me that good things always come on the hard way. Maybe this awaiting will be awarded sometimes with the best CMS ever, who knows ? If we waited for so long, can't we wait for 10-11 days more ?
I work on the Internet for quite some time now and i can really say that building something like a CMS is a challenge and a time-consuming process. The programmers where i work have worked for a few months to build one website, so it takes time and if they hurry, they will surely release something not that good. Let's give them time to work and hope everything will be alright. I don't believe in miracles but this doesn't mean they don't exist...
signalzero 10-20-2009 10:39 AM
If you are going to apply that logic to this scenario, as history of a future predictor, well...
a squared 10-20-2009 09:42 PM
What would be nice is if SD3 were released on the 29th. I feel that if SD3 is released on schedule (the 31st) a day after the pre-sale for vB4 and vB's new CMS that SD will lose most of it's vB users. Which I know are many.
signalzero 10-20-2009 09:59 PM
Just based upon them having a CMS that goes with Vbulletin and they offer LIFETIME support, I purchased a license for their CMS, because they have show that their forum rocks, and they produce.
Keeping your word and delivering your product goes a longg way with most consumers, something that SD is going to learn the hard way. I can bet there are ALOT of us that have pre purchased the Vbulletin CMS and will dissappear from these forums in just a little while.
Elvis 10-21-2009 04:31 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by signalzero (Post 88218)
I can bet there are ALOT of us that have pre purchased the Vbulletin CMS and will dissappear from these forums in just a little while.
:lol: Me too
Terminator1138 10-22-2009 10:17 AM
Well I was one of those who disappeared over time. I got suckered into buying more support downloads that never produced updated plugins. I stopped supporting SD and promoting it. I removed 1/2 of my sites that run SD. I still have one that would require it to run, but technically speaking, I've taken them all offline. My investment had to be pulled as they were great sites, but I could not continue to pour money into something that did not show development.
I was even branded as to critical and cynical on this site from time to time to show that I believed what was happening was true. And w/ SD only having one week to produce something, my guess, it will be delayed. O ya, and did I mention that I bought the download extension in support for this release!!!!...money down the drain.
And if you look at the closure of sd.org means that people are moving on more and more. There was more going on over there then what happened here....those who helped SD like heavyeddie, Tobias, and others helped propel this site and each one left. Those guys were awesome when they helped.
My thoughts go beyond but I don't want to be banned. :P
joeymatthews 10-22-2009 07:06 PM
That's the sad thing.
I don't know anywhere that stills gains the support from customers like subdreamer does, even though we're in the cold 99% of the time. We still continue to purchase and hope to see progress, it's no clear cut but I just feel that things really need sorting. It's not going to go anywhere in the current state, least that's my opinion. There needs to be a production team, I don't even know how many people are behind this now but it's not enough.
~Joey
olijo 10-23-2009 05:42 AM
8 days before 31 October...
No Announcement
No communication
let us not dream...
My opinion is that it is a beautiful swindle!
Deeply 31 to see if I paid the renewal of my license for anything...
ValsiS 10-23-2009 06:29 AM
:)) 31 oct 2010 :))
Prostr 10-23-2009 08:11 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ValsiS (Post 88227)
:)) 31 oct 2010 :))
U did scare me with that comment! ;-)
Yep, I really dont think that the release date will be the date of the release. I really start to think, that ive spend my money on something I dont get anything from.
As I think the laws in the US are, then I cannot do anything to get my money back - right?
olijo 10-23-2009 09:31 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Prostr (Post 88228)
U did scare me with that comment! ;-)
Yep, I really dont think that the release date will be the date of the release. I really start to think, that ive spend my money on something I dont get anything from.
As I think the laws in the US are, then I cannot do anything to get my money back - right?
right...
Loneweb 10-23-2009 09:52 AM
whats that old saying? Fool me once.. Shame on you.... Fool me twice.. Shame on me...
For me.. it really doesn't matter anymore what is produced...
Elvis 10-23-2009 01:27 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Loneweb (Post 88230)
it really doesn't matter anymore what is produced...
Well spoken, pal! And you're right, the shame is on me. I absolutely regret that I have renewed my licence just for that vague promise of the mysterious Mr. Ziad ...
animedreamz 10-23-2009 08:56 PM
I say we wait I'm sure they are feeling a huge amount of pressure now and downing them no matter how true it is will not change a thing but it will make them hurry to finish work on the cms which could lead to bugs. How ever if the 31st comes and theres no release or announcement I'm leaving SD for joomla until I can save to get the vb4 suite. Because the least they can do is keep us posted I know there trying to build anticipation but there making a lot of customers made and forcing them to leave due to there silence.
signalzero 10-23-2009 10:39 PM
More than a year ago, I cant remember, when I sent an email asking about all the hub bub at the time surrounding bad rap for SD, I got the response of " 1 disgruntled customer created all kids of problems " . I now see that is was a sign of things to come...
Being here since 2007 I now see a much clearer picture.. One that isnt being seen thru rose colored glasses.
Elvis, since 2004 is a trooper indeed. I miss Heavy Eddie and Tobias :(
Elvis 10-24-2009 01:26 PM
*sings* Rose tints my world, Keeps me safe from my trouble and pain
:lol:
signalzero 10-24-2009 08:25 PM
With that mullet and a guitaaar.... I can hear the dogs howling now :) ~~~~
Prostr 10-25-2009 01:05 PM
Yea, at least they could give some response on the forum - but no.
pinky 10-25-2009 03:27 PM
Well I think we are shouting before we have been hurt ... they have said 31/10/09 and still have 6 days ~ we should at least do the decent thing and let them meet or miss their deadline
jblackburn 10-25-2009 10:16 PM
It doesn't look like vB4 Suite includes a file download manager. Has anyone heard of any plugins, etc. that might work for that? If not, for those that need it, that would be one major deficit with moving to the vb suite.
Need to dig in more too, but wondering if you can create a menu and custom pages like you can in SD. If not, that would be a major problem for some as well.
Terminator1138 10-26-2009 12:39 AM
well VB is harder to skin .but I'm sure the community will bounce right back w/ tons of downloads. There might be a forum addon for download manager as well
amasilviama 10-26-2009 06:36 AM
For those who lost trust in Subdreamer, i think it's best we wait to see what comes after 31st october. I don't want to seem stupid to you, but have you ever thought that it Subdreamer 3 might be the best solution after it is released ? It's been a long time since they work on it, and, i myself, look forward to see it. I have confidence that it will bring something good.
My advice is only this : wait and see! Take action after!
jlbenavides 10-26-2009 06:56 AM
Don't take offense for this, but I think all these messages reflect how interested we are in SD3 release and how afraid we feel of a possible decease of this project.
Prostr 10-26-2009 07:04 AM
When will VB 4.0 Suite be released, does anyone know?
If its just after the discount date expires, or it is months after or...
Loneweb 10-26-2009 08:43 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Prostr (Post 88246)
When will VB 4.0 Suite be released, does anyone know?
If its just after the discount date expires, or it is months after or...
I don't think a date is set in stone... but their development guideline is for 4th Q 2009... so it could be 2 weeks... to 2 months.. its in beta now.. so its all up to how many bugs needs to be squashed ... I'm pretty anxious myself, as it will replace my current SD site.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jlbenavides (Post 88245)
Don't take offense for this, but I think all these messages reflect how interested we are in SD3 release and how afraid we feel of a possible decease of this project.
No offense taken :D I am interested to see what SD comes up with. It would be nice if they could pull out of the hole they seem to have fallen into and regain the trust of their customers...they have lost so many.. and about to lose alot more if they dont deliver... over a year.. and still no update to anything...But..I'm more interested to see if they keep there promise.. I'm tuned in simply to see the results.
If sd3 comes out on time:huh::unsure:.. I might use it with my old VB license on another (new) site .. that is.. IF it will integrate well with vb4 classic forum with the major template system changes they made... who knows...
Prostr 10-26-2009 11:48 AM
Double post...
Prostr 10-26-2009 11:49 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Loneweb (Post 88248)
I don't think a date is set in stone... but their development guideline is for 4th Q 2009... so it could be 2 weeks... to 2 months.. its in beta now.. so its all up to how many bugs needs to be squashed ... I'm pretty anxious myself, as it will replace my current SD site.
Okay cool.. Thanks :-)
Baklap 10-27-2009 09:43 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by amasilviama (Post 88244)
For those who lost trust in Subdreamer, i think it's best we wait to see what comes after 31st october. I don't want to seem stupid to you, but have you ever thought that it Subdreamer 3 might be the best solution after it is released ? It's been a long time since they work on it, and, i myself, look forward to see it. I have confidence that it will bring something good.
My advice is only this : wait and see! Take action after!
lol being naive is a bless sometimes!
Once more it will be delayed as it has been last 2 years (yes that is 2 years!) :)
Drupal, VB, Joomla so many ways to go beyond this. I for one will be very curious to see what happens October 31st :)
Maybe He (yes i meant a capitol H) surprises us all ... that would be a true kicker :)
signalzero 10-27-2009 10:50 PM
Good to see you Baklap.
I cant wait for the Trick or Treat day to arrive.....
My kids are so excited LOLOL....
RandomNinjaAtk 10-28-2009 07:11 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by signalzero (Post 88255)
I cant wait for the Trick or Treat day to arrive.....
LOL All I have to say is that if SD delivers, it will be a Treat! If SD fails to deliver it will be a Trick! Kinda fits in with halloween almost.... So only a few days away from being a trick or treat......
Terminator1138 10-28-2009 08:01 PM
Well with two more days, and not one single word, well sorry to say I WAS very interested in SD 3.0 and as you can see, I have been a customer for years, but slowly, they have not gained my trust much. I'm sticking around cuz I have hopes and dreams, but I expressed a need for updates over a year ago on a plugin. I got tired of manually removing spam email addresses, so much that I could not send out any newsletters to members. I had to add a forum just to allow for that function.
The thing is, with such slow development for a company that is making good money with this system for years, I only say that its getting much like vapor-ware. I hope I'm wrong.
despo 10-29-2009 06:42 AM
I have used Subdreamer for at least 3 years.
There have been no development the last years, no upgrades.
They promise too much, but do nothing.
I have paid for the last license to get SD 3.0 before they started the campaign, if I could get my money I did. As i can understand, there is no refund.
Bye Bye Subdreamer.
EHRGIEZ 10-31-2009 02:10 AM
its oct 31 now cant wait for SD3 release :D
GusarVA 10-31-2009 05:07 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by EHRGIEZ (Post 88266)
its oct 31 now cant wait for SD3 release :D
wait... :)
We wait that Ziad will tell :)
EHRGIEZ 10-31-2009 05:55 AM
well they are shooting for oct 31 so theres a chance it my change date again btw im ready to renew :D
edekk 10-31-2009 06:59 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by EHRGIEZ (Post 88266)
its oct 31 now cant wait for SD3 release :D
Same, willbe whole day here, waiting for SD3. :D
EHRGIEZ 10-31-2009 07:20 AM
hahaha ive been visit subdreamer every hour to check if theres any news for SD3 :D
GusarVA 10-31-2009 07:26 AM
Probably it is necessary to consider a difference in time at me now on October, 31st 14-25:) and here what is the time now at developers interestingly?
EHRGIEZ 10-31-2009 07:32 AM
hmm the time here in forum is 6:30 am lol :D
edekk 10-31-2009 07:50 AM
Well its 31st Oct 12:50 pm here atm. :)
GusarVA 10-31-2009 08:15 AM
http://www.subdreamer.com/forum/showthread.php?t=15943
edekk 10-31-2009 09:38 AM
OMG, now i have to follow Tweater to learn something about updates. No dates, no nothing. We're sorry too Ziad but this is not acceptable, which means you're loosing another client, probably more and more will follow - too bad, for you.
olijo 10-31-2009 10:55 AM
lol who is surprised? Seriously… this is the end…
mongeron 10-31-2009 11:19 AM
Last update on Twitter is dated 8th of August. LOL. So, according to Twitter SD is dead, which surprises no-one.
If I had bought SD 3 via the pre-sales campaign, I would contact the police to start a criminal investigation on fraud. I'm happy I didn't buy it.
RandomNinjaAtk 10-31-2009 11:42 AM
Wow, guess we could a seen that one coming... :(
signalzero 10-31-2009 12:40 PM
They want you to follow twitter, because in just a little while, they will turn the forums off. Without a forum, there will really be no place to complain about updates and the lack there of.
Geiri 10-31-2009 02:37 PM
I am disappointed... I thought he would at least release a beta. Instead he does not even mention a time???
Next weak, next month or next year.
And to ask users to stop visiting the forum and follow on twitter what is that?
Ziad, Post your announcements where they should be posted. HERE
SanderS 10-31-2009 04:16 PM
Damn... What waste of time checking the forum every day for the last couple of days... Still had some naive hope, but now all I want is a refund :(
Poor communication, no new deadline, no nothing...
Prostr 10-31-2009 04:18 PM
OKay..
THis was my absolutly last patent..
What can I do, to get the money back????????????
This is SO unacceptable!!!!
animedreamz 10-31-2009 04:25 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by SanderS (Post 88282)
Damn... What waste of time checking the forum every day for the last couple of days... Still had some naive hope, but now all I want is a refund :(
Poor communication, no new deadline, no nothing...
I have to agree I dont even use SD anymore lol I dropped it 2 months after buying it for joomla because of how poor it was built. SignalZero knows something more then the rest of us. How did you know the forum would be closing when the announcement wasn't made to say that? He had a whole month to get SD3 finished(not to mention over a year to) now its I need more time dang it release what ever you have so we can at least see you did something over this past year. Fraud I dont think we would pin him with that unless your aiming to say you updated only for SD3 but they might say that its at your own risk since there is not warranty on SD.
hannay 10-31-2009 06:17 PM
That's me out. What a joke this has become!
Luckily, VB have extended the pre sale offer :)
ValsiS 10-31-2009 09:28 PM
don;t worry ... be happy
signalzero 10-31-2009 09:46 PM
How do I know. I dont know for sure, but I can speculate.
You see im old and wise, not a youngster like some and ive been around the block a few times. :) I asked many months ago with a direct email from Alice Hilal , his wife who is the office manager about the ill feelings of SD that are posted all over the internet, and back then she hinted they were thinking of closing the forums.
You see , without a forum to monitor, they dont need a MOD on staff , which im sure they pay, and there is really no place to ask about time lines and the future.
Then all you have to do is live off the newbies that sign up and then leave again.
If you want to see a good predictor of the future , just look to the past. If you look at what they have offered and done over the last 6 years compared to other CMS software, you would see its not much. Its a very small niche market, and VB and others have closed the gap, and are developing all around at a fast pace and more importantly , delivering a real product, not broken promises.
This CMS very soon is what is going to be called VaporWare.........
Loneweb 10-31-2009 11:01 PM
Happy Halloween! LOL.. wish I could say I'm surprised.
And for all you people who are talking you wish you could get your money back.. well .. while you may not.. you can report them .....
Hope a few of you see this post before they delete it and ban me.. but I dont care... VB baby VB!!!
Contact the Federal Trade Commission. When you file a complaint, big or small, with the Federal Trade Commission (FTC), this sets in motion a trend for a particular company or companies. You may think a single complaint will do nothing, but when more than one complaint comes in about a single company, the FTC will take notice.
Contact the Better Business Bureau. This is a non-profit company that has been helping consumers for a long time. They were created to keep buyers and sellers honest. The Better Business Bureau is all about integrity and trust. If the company you have done business with, or want to do business with, does not have one of the four BBB seals either at its place of business or on its website, it is in your best interest to stay away from it. Otherwise, you will find yourself filing a complaint with the Better Business Bureau.
Contact econsumer.gov. This company was created in April, 2001 due to the many on line companies that are all over the world. It was created to keep multinational Internet fraud down and to enhance consumer protection. eConsumer.gov works with all thirteen countries belonging to the International Consumer Protection Enforcement Network. The eConsumer.gov website suggests you try and resolve your complaint before filing your complaint with them. eConsumer.gov suggests you make your purchases with either a credit card, debit card or store valued card. This way, you might get relief from the credit card issuer.
Contact Internet Fraud Consumer Complaint Center. The (ICCC) was established as a partnership between the FBI and National White Collar Crimes Center. The Internet Consumer Complaint Center is created, and to this day, continues to emphasize, serving the broader law enforcement community, including the federal, state and local agencies, in combating Internet crime. Since the IC3, as it is known, was founded, it has helped consumers involved in cyber crime matters, all the way to online fraud.
Contact The National Fraud Internet Center. The National Fraud Internet Center's main purpose is to give consumer's information they need to avoid becoming victims of telemarketing or Internet fraud. The Fraud Center is operated by the National Consumer's League, which is America's oldest nonprofit consumer organization. The Fraud Center suggests you do a little homework on the company you intent to do business with. That way, you will not be a victim of their lack of integrity.
Contact the National Association of Attorneys General. Another organization you might want to consider filing a complaint with is the National Association of Attorney's General. Depending on the state you placed your order with, you can file a complaint in that state. Once you are at the Attorney General website, look for the 'contact us' link. Then, look for a link about websites and online companies. There will be a form you will fill out with all the information about the company you did business with. Once the form has been completed, you will get a response in your in box and the Attorney General in the state of your purchase will follow up on your case to see if there is a pattern of bad business practices.
bluevolt 10-31-2009 11:57 PM
All these months, I have watched these going-ons in the forums without commenting on the situation, in the hope that SD 3 will be out soon. Three deadlines have now been missed ("first half of 2009", "Sometime in July" and "shooting for October 31st") and now it is unlikely that SD 3 will be released anytime soon. For development to happen at a rapid pace, you need people, and you also need to pay people. I suspect that Tobias, Kushal and Andre left because SD was no longer interested in paying them.
So what do you make of a business which is run like a hobby, and an owner who hurls rudeness publicly on its existing customers? In one of the posts, Ziad was very defensive about people speculating, or creating 'theories'. There is a reason why customers are writing things on the forum, and that is because there is no information whatsoever from SD on what is going to happen next. Naturally, people will start posting negative feedback. If Ziad is not mature enough to understand that, then he should not be running a business for which people pay good money.
And lastly, what makes us think that SD 3 is going to be Windows 7? One has to remember that SD 3 was put into "development" more than a year back, and the presumed functions and aesthetics would have been thought of keeping the existing competition at that time. But then, there was no VB publishing suite nor updated versions of the Joomla - today, the market is full of value added, competitive products and without a strong team, SD will struggle to deliver. In the old days, SD scored because of forum integration and a thriving dev community (that is why I bought it), but now CMS's like VB suite has put an end to the forum integration USP, and the good hearted plugin contributors have moved away from SD. If you ask me, forum integration isn't all what it's cracked up to be, you can run the main website and forums separately and both will thrive.
I would still stick to SD for a while till I convert my custom skin into Joomla or Vivvo and then it is curtains for SD. Even if SD 3 releases, I am not buying - just remember that SD will not develop plug-ins, so what are you going to do with the base installation? Blog? There's wordpress for that.
speedpro50 11-01-2009 04:33 AM
We deserve an update or our money back. During the sale in June Ziad stated
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ziad
Development of Subdreamer CMS 3.0 is nearly complete
, now we have November!
speedpro50 11-01-2009 04:35 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by signalzero (Post 88287)
she hinted they were thinking of closing the forums.
Setting up a new website about Ziad and Subdreamer is a matter of minutes so I don't think closing the forums would be a wise move.
Elvis 11-01-2009 07:07 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by speedpro50 (Post 88291)
Setting up a new website about Ziad and Subdreamer is a matter of minutes so I don't think closing the forums would be a wise move.
I second that! I am totally disappointed about what's going on here. I bought new licences and renewed the old ones (somewhat around 10 of them in total) just for the promise of a new release coming soon. I can't help myself, but I feel as i was robbed ...
Perhaps someone should take some action. Since I am in germany, I have no chance to get my money back. But for those living in the USA, join your forces and show your colors. Loyal customers like us must not be treated this way ...
edekk 11-01-2009 07:57 AM
100% agree with above. Take legal actions. I feel robbed.
Pugguy 11-01-2009 08:24 AM
Im sure if you have payed on your credit card you can get a charge back for 'goods not delivered'.
Very dissapointed, it looks like vb is the way for me too...
In my quest to save others from spending money on a product that fails and lacks everything i am posting these messages. Here is the latest is the saga around SD3.
Long page ahead as it is 6 pages taken from this thread http://www.subdreamer.com/forum/printthread.php?t=15930
Why do i post this? It will be deleted from the forums and therefore i think you should be able to read it anyway..
-------------
Geiri 10-13-2009 07:53 PM
Can subdreamer 3 compete with vBulletin CMS?
vBulletin is Announcing the Presale Event for vBulletin 4.0 Suite
Can Subdreamer compete now and in the feature? :unsure:
http://www.vbulletin.com
animedreamz 10-14-2009 03:27 AM
I doubt it the only thing I see them having in common is same login. The features of vb cms are on joomla's level or better and with a full coder base for free mods(unlike the SD coder base) it will be more or less useful to those who like me dont want to spent $250 to upgrade. I will say SD will be cheaper but in comparison to the suite $280 for the full Vb4 term is way better then $40 every year and it includes all Vb4 mods (impex, blog, project tools). For now we will have to see just how they stack up on a CMS to CMS level as I'm sure most users here use IPB or phpbb or mybb a bit more the Vb you took the thread right from my mind we think a like. I hope the template engine for SD3 is database driven like thy said it would be and I am putting off my sites release to see how it stacks up to joomla, and now with Vb4 near release I will weigh in on how it stacks up against its new CMS.
barsa 10-14-2009 03:40 AM
I was just about to post this, VB offered me to upgrade for $130 (valid till end of this month) but im still have hopes in SD 3.x - i'm still waiting.
animedreamz 10-14-2009 03:50 AM
Same here I used SD for a while then I quit web dev for a while and then noticed 2.6 beta for a year and tried SD again with hopes its code changed but nope. Lets see how they stack up I dont want the vb suite but I will if I have to and joomla is my other option if SD doesn't deliver a solid system. At least vbsuite will run off one database using the same tables all around with a few added. I wonder how well it is guarded for table locks or crashes on large sites its like a race to see who releases first lets hope SD does and maybe some more coders come to dev mods for SD who knows the winds of change are blowing lets see if SD will still stand after the storm.
olijo 10-14-2009 04:46 AM
I think Joomla is good but the problem is for the manage of the groups and athorization, it's my way.
I've got two site who propulsed by joomla, and i don't have problem except managing groups.
animedreamz 10-14-2009 04:56 AM
Yeah with vbulletin its a pain I use a bridge and it works great except your account names cant be the same on both once you use the bridge you will get an error and cant login other then that it works fine.
vynnus 10-14-2009 07:48 AM
I still preffer the simplicity and flexibility of Subdreamer although I recognize VB has a lot more features and stuff, most of them not really necessary for some. That's my opinion.
arturb 10-14-2009 08:17 AM
I have 10 sites on SD and adding more, VB Publisher is yet to be fully tested so it's too early to tell how good it really is. It's almost 3 times the price, so I would expect it to be 3 times as good as Subdreamer and it's not that as far as I can tell.
Geiri 10-14-2009 02:43 PM
For use that use vb as our forum
We must recognize that vBulletin community is strong and there are lots of free themes and plugins
I do not think the price is high in the vB-suite you are paying for the cms,blog and the forum but there are cons for one there are no importers for content and even if you choose not to use vb-cms you are locked in and you must upgrade the suite you can not just decide to use the forum and upgrade at the forums price.
I think I will wait and stick with Subdreamer... although I see some serious competition ahead at least with product updates :)
Terminator1138 10-14-2009 05:27 PM
Well I put a lot into SD CMS....now without updates and over years of slow development, but thanks to many free developers, it was turning into a greater system. However Vbulletin has a lot going for them on this project.
Not to mention the other free download site that offers a lot just for the forums, now imagine all those ppl playing with a cms as well...means lots of free content to utilize...and yes great themes.
Upgrade from active vb forum is only 120 bucks just released that info today.
SD is 99 for just pro license BUT.....the support kills you here w/ an additional 40 bucks which puts it for me over the CMS suite and I get more.
Will it take business away, Yep, those who use vb, but SD will keep those who have IPB since they are slow to develop their CMS....and SMF and phpBB....but keep in mind, the longer it takes to roll out SD each year, the more others make up for it.
animedreamz 10-14-2009 05:44 PM
I agree with you Terminator1128. SD used to be great but look at the screen shots of Vb4 CMS its interface is way better then SD's screen cap both in design and feature set. Like I said on vb.com it more like joomla even down to how it looks which is great, theres more structure based options. Lets not down SD until we have seen SD3 in action they made the new main site using it which is an improvement over the old site but I'm starting to wonder if its a new concept or is it just a code fix for 2.6. They said there would be a 2.7 release but they never came through on that either. There hurting there own rep by lying and carring on as they have. If SD 3 flops SD needs to close no one will want to wait another year for software that works less then freeware.
Terminator1138 10-15-2009 07:49 AM
yep, true I have yet to see SD 3 in action.
ultimately, time will tell....
hannay 10-15-2009 10:45 AM
SD's 31 Oct deadline is my deadline with SD I think. If nothing comes then, I'm off elsewhere. I think members here have been VERY patient, and for NOTHING in a long time. VB's CMS does look very tempting.
signalzero 10-15-2009 10:53 AM
If nothing else they are offering FREE LIFETIME SUPPORT.
VBulletin has just stepped up to the plate and are delivering a product.
They had the best forum and all you needed was a CMS to integrate the two.
I see nothing but SEXY from their screen shots ....
http://files.vbulletin.com/images/ca...ion_inline.png
olijo 10-15-2009 01:04 PM
here is the CMS home page of vB
http://files.vbulletin.com/images/ca...s/CMS_home.png
Mr_Bob 10-15-2009 11:43 PM
Pretty much all along the lines of what I'm thinking. I'll be honest, I purchased the Suite upgrade; it was only $130 and offers me enhanced support for life + free updates for the entire Vbulletin 4 series. From what has been disused in numerous blog posts by developers, the screenshots, etc of the VB CMS it has all the features of Subdreamer with the added bonuses of being well supported and much more modern in both features and design.
I have two SD licenses at the present; the one license I run on a site with Vbulletin I will likely no longer utilize. Simply put, SD as a company has been rather unreliable over the last few years with VERY little updates.
So, as for advice for SD, if they really want to continue to compete in the market they need to do a much better job with software updates and customer / coder relations.
There, my two cents :).
Terminator1138 10-16-2009 12:02 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by hannay (Post 88191)
SD's 31 Oct deadline is my deadline with SD I think. If nothing comes then, I'm off elsewhere. I think members here have been VERY patient, and for NOTHING in a long time. VB's CMS does look very tempting.
keep in mind the presale of vb is just before that as well so if you want to save, you have to preorder by end of this month as well....
Terminator1138 10-16-2009 12:03 PM
And...with better forum integration like post buttons on their forum to create article is a feature I love for better interaction.
Terminator1138 10-16-2009 05:44 PM
Got an email about IPB releasing their CMS as well.....I've looked at it long ago when they first mentioned it but not sure about it now...plus I already use VB so a switch to their forum is a bit much.
animedreamz 10-16-2009 07:32 PM
Lolz yeah the new cms looks so much like the joomla article interface its not even funny. The best part is seamless integration, I'm upgrade after the holidays after its been tested and reviewed by a few more vb users. I see it coming around christmas time or early jan. I hope SD comes with a great product. If they dont deliver the product on the 31st and then dont post an announcement I'm leaving SD for good for joomla and then after feb I'll move to Vb CMS.
signalzero 10-17-2009 02:38 PM
Woo Hoo. For one of my last sites running vbulletin, I got my pre-order...
So long SD :(...
cykelmyggen 10-17-2009 03:21 PM
SD will probably deliver a real funky CMS, if not within the scheduled date, then before 2010. The real competition lies between the sizes and the activities of the communities following vB and SD. The much larger community following vB will be able to deliver a huge number of free mods/add-ons/plugins. As it is for now, SD has stated that only the basic plugins will be built into SD 3.0 - the community and the businesses around the product will have to take care of all further development of extensions. I'm having my doubts wether the diminishing community of SD will be able to make a comeback due to the long period of low activity on the CMS. I hope so though, because I love SD due to its simplicity and ease of use.
Loneweb 10-19-2009 12:50 AM
One would think... SD would address the concerns of this thread.. give some sort of idea if its still on track.. how it will integrate with vb4...if it will at all...I have preordered vb4 already.. but dont plan on upgrading my site untill i give it a good testing.
Elvis 10-19-2009 02:29 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by cykelmyggen (Post 88206)
... if not within the scheduled date, then before 2010.
... that would be one more broken promise! I do not think the SD company will get my trust back with that!
Geiri 10-19-2009 02:00 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Loneweb (Post 88210)
One would think... SD would address the concerns of this thread.. give some sort of idea if its still on track.. how it will integrate with vb4...
Lets hope they are to busy making Sd 3 ready to do it :)
signalzero 10-19-2009 08:32 PM
"They" really ? I think its more appropriate to say he.
amasilviama 10-20-2009 09:16 AM
My past experience tought me that good things always come on the hard way. Maybe this awaiting will be awarded sometimes with the best CMS ever, who knows ? If we waited for so long, can't we wait for 10-11 days more ?
I work on the Internet for quite some time now and i can really say that building something like a CMS is a challenge and a time-consuming process. The programmers where i work have worked for a few months to build one website, so it takes time and if they hurry, they will surely release something not that good. Let's give them time to work and hope everything will be alright. I don't believe in miracles but this doesn't mean they don't exist...
signalzero 10-20-2009 10:39 AM
If you are going to apply that logic to this scenario, as history of a future predictor, well...
a squared 10-20-2009 09:42 PM
What would be nice is if SD3 were released on the 29th. I feel that if SD3 is released on schedule (the 31st) a day after the pre-sale for vB4 and vB's new CMS that SD will lose most of it's vB users. Which I know are many.
signalzero 10-20-2009 09:59 PM
Just based upon them having a CMS that goes with Vbulletin and they offer LIFETIME support, I purchased a license for their CMS, because they have show that their forum rocks, and they produce.
Keeping your word and delivering your product goes a longg way with most consumers, something that SD is going to learn the hard way. I can bet there are ALOT of us that have pre purchased the Vbulletin CMS and will dissappear from these forums in just a little while.
Elvis 10-21-2009 04:31 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by signalzero (Post 88218)
I can bet there are ALOT of us that have pre purchased the Vbulletin CMS and will dissappear from these forums in just a little while.
:lol: Me too
Terminator1138 10-22-2009 10:17 AM
Well I was one of those who disappeared over time. I got suckered into buying more support downloads that never produced updated plugins. I stopped supporting SD and promoting it. I removed 1/2 of my sites that run SD. I still have one that would require it to run, but technically speaking, I've taken them all offline. My investment had to be pulled as they were great sites, but I could not continue to pour money into something that did not show development.
I was even branded as to critical and cynical on this site from time to time to show that I believed what was happening was true. And w/ SD only having one week to produce something, my guess, it will be delayed. O ya, and did I mention that I bought the download extension in support for this release!!!!...money down the drain.
And if you look at the closure of sd.org means that people are moving on more and more. There was more going on over there then what happened here....those who helped SD like heavyeddie, Tobias, and others helped propel this site and each one left. Those guys were awesome when they helped.
My thoughts go beyond but I don't want to be banned. :P
joeymatthews 10-22-2009 07:06 PM
That's the sad thing.
I don't know anywhere that stills gains the support from customers like subdreamer does, even though we're in the cold 99% of the time. We still continue to purchase and hope to see progress, it's no clear cut but I just feel that things really need sorting. It's not going to go anywhere in the current state, least that's my opinion. There needs to be a production team, I don't even know how many people are behind this now but it's not enough.
~Joey
olijo 10-23-2009 05:42 AM
8 days before 31 October...
No Announcement
No communication
let us not dream...
My opinion is that it is a beautiful swindle!
Deeply 31 to see if I paid the renewal of my license for anything...
ValsiS 10-23-2009 06:29 AM
:)) 31 oct 2010 :))
Prostr 10-23-2009 08:11 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ValsiS (Post 88227)
:)) 31 oct 2010 :))
U did scare me with that comment! ;-)
Yep, I really dont think that the release date will be the date of the release. I really start to think, that ive spend my money on something I dont get anything from.
As I think the laws in the US are, then I cannot do anything to get my money back - right?
olijo 10-23-2009 09:31 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Prostr (Post 88228)
U did scare me with that comment! ;-)
Yep, I really dont think that the release date will be the date of the release. I really start to think, that ive spend my money on something I dont get anything from.
As I think the laws in the US are, then I cannot do anything to get my money back - right?
right...
Loneweb 10-23-2009 09:52 AM
whats that old saying? Fool me once.. Shame on you.... Fool me twice.. Shame on me...
For me.. it really doesn't matter anymore what is produced...
Elvis 10-23-2009 01:27 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Loneweb (Post 88230)
it really doesn't matter anymore what is produced...
Well spoken, pal! And you're right, the shame is on me. I absolutely regret that I have renewed my licence just for that vague promise of the mysterious Mr. Ziad ...
animedreamz 10-23-2009 08:56 PM
I say we wait I'm sure they are feeling a huge amount of pressure now and downing them no matter how true it is will not change a thing but it will make them hurry to finish work on the cms which could lead to bugs. How ever if the 31st comes and theres no release or announcement I'm leaving SD for joomla until I can save to get the vb4 suite. Because the least they can do is keep us posted I know there trying to build anticipation but there making a lot of customers made and forcing them to leave due to there silence.
signalzero 10-23-2009 10:39 PM
More than a year ago, I cant remember, when I sent an email asking about all the hub bub at the time surrounding bad rap for SD, I got the response of " 1 disgruntled customer created all kids of problems " . I now see that is was a sign of things to come...
Being here since 2007 I now see a much clearer picture.. One that isnt being seen thru rose colored glasses.
Elvis, since 2004 is a trooper indeed. I miss Heavy Eddie and Tobias :(
Elvis 10-24-2009 01:26 PM
*sings* Rose tints my world, Keeps me safe from my trouble and pain
:lol:
signalzero 10-24-2009 08:25 PM
With that mullet and a guitaaar.... I can hear the dogs howling now :) ~~~~
Prostr 10-25-2009 01:05 PM
Yea, at least they could give some response on the forum - but no.
pinky 10-25-2009 03:27 PM
Well I think we are shouting before we have been hurt ... they have said 31/10/09 and still have 6 days ~ we should at least do the decent thing and let them meet or miss their deadline
jblackburn 10-25-2009 10:16 PM
It doesn't look like vB4 Suite includes a file download manager. Has anyone heard of any plugins, etc. that might work for that? If not, for those that need it, that would be one major deficit with moving to the vb suite.
Need to dig in more too, but wondering if you can create a menu and custom pages like you can in SD. If not, that would be a major problem for some as well.
Terminator1138 10-26-2009 12:39 AM
well VB is harder to skin .but I'm sure the community will bounce right back w/ tons of downloads. There might be a forum addon for download manager as well
amasilviama 10-26-2009 06:36 AM
For those who lost trust in Subdreamer, i think it's best we wait to see what comes after 31st october. I don't want to seem stupid to you, but have you ever thought that it Subdreamer 3 might be the best solution after it is released ? It's been a long time since they work on it, and, i myself, look forward to see it. I have confidence that it will bring something good.
My advice is only this : wait and see! Take action after!
jlbenavides 10-26-2009 06:56 AM
Don't take offense for this, but I think all these messages reflect how interested we are in SD3 release and how afraid we feel of a possible decease of this project.
Prostr 10-26-2009 07:04 AM
When will VB 4.0 Suite be released, does anyone know?
If its just after the discount date expires, or it is months after or...
Loneweb 10-26-2009 08:43 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Prostr (Post 88246)
When will VB 4.0 Suite be released, does anyone know?
If its just after the discount date expires, or it is months after or...
I don't think a date is set in stone... but their development guideline is for 4th Q 2009... so it could be 2 weeks... to 2 months.. its in beta now.. so its all up to how many bugs needs to be squashed ... I'm pretty anxious myself, as it will replace my current SD site.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jlbenavides (Post 88245)
Don't take offense for this, but I think all these messages reflect how interested we are in SD3 release and how afraid we feel of a possible decease of this project.
No offense taken :D I am interested to see what SD comes up with. It would be nice if they could pull out of the hole they seem to have fallen into and regain the trust of their customers...they have lost so many.. and about to lose alot more if they dont deliver... over a year.. and still no update to anything...But..I'm more interested to see if they keep there promise.. I'm tuned in simply to see the results.
If sd3 comes out on time:huh::unsure:.. I might use it with my old VB license on another (new) site .. that is.. IF it will integrate well with vb4 classic forum with the major template system changes they made... who knows...
Prostr 10-26-2009 11:48 AM
Double post...
Prostr 10-26-2009 11:49 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Loneweb (Post 88248)
I don't think a date is set in stone... but their development guideline is for 4th Q 2009... so it could be 2 weeks... to 2 months.. its in beta now.. so its all up to how many bugs needs to be squashed ... I'm pretty anxious myself, as it will replace my current SD site.
Okay cool.. Thanks :-)
Baklap 10-27-2009 09:43 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by amasilviama (Post 88244)
For those who lost trust in Subdreamer, i think it's best we wait to see what comes after 31st october. I don't want to seem stupid to you, but have you ever thought that it Subdreamer 3 might be the best solution after it is released ? It's been a long time since they work on it, and, i myself, look forward to see it. I have confidence that it will bring something good.
My advice is only this : wait and see! Take action after!
lol being naive is a bless sometimes!
Once more it will be delayed as it has been last 2 years (yes that is 2 years!) :)
Drupal, VB, Joomla so many ways to go beyond this. I for one will be very curious to see what happens October 31st :)
Maybe He (yes i meant a capitol H) surprises us all ... that would be a true kicker :)
signalzero 10-27-2009 10:50 PM
Good to see you Baklap.
I cant wait for the Trick or Treat day to arrive.....
My kids are so excited LOLOL....
RandomNinjaAtk 10-28-2009 07:11 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by signalzero (Post 88255)
I cant wait for the Trick or Treat day to arrive.....
LOL All I have to say is that if SD delivers, it will be a Treat! If SD fails to deliver it will be a Trick! Kinda fits in with halloween almost.... So only a few days away from being a trick or treat......
Terminator1138 10-28-2009 08:01 PM
Well with two more days, and not one single word, well sorry to say I WAS very interested in SD 3.0 and as you can see, I have been a customer for years, but slowly, they have not gained my trust much. I'm sticking around cuz I have hopes and dreams, but I expressed a need for updates over a year ago on a plugin. I got tired of manually removing spam email addresses, so much that I could not send out any newsletters to members. I had to add a forum just to allow for that function.
The thing is, with such slow development for a company that is making good money with this system for years, I only say that its getting much like vapor-ware. I hope I'm wrong.
despo 10-29-2009 06:42 AM
I have used Subdreamer for at least 3 years.
There have been no development the last years, no upgrades.
They promise too much, but do nothing.
I have paid for the last license to get SD 3.0 before they started the campaign, if I could get my money I did. As i can understand, there is no refund.
Bye Bye Subdreamer.
EHRGIEZ 10-31-2009 02:10 AM
its oct 31 now cant wait for SD3 release :D
GusarVA 10-31-2009 05:07 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by EHRGIEZ (Post 88266)
its oct 31 now cant wait for SD3 release :D
wait... :)
We wait that Ziad will tell :)
EHRGIEZ 10-31-2009 05:55 AM
well they are shooting for oct 31 so theres a chance it my change date again btw im ready to renew :D
edekk 10-31-2009 06:59 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by EHRGIEZ (Post 88266)
its oct 31 now cant wait for SD3 release :D
Same, willbe whole day here, waiting for SD3. :D
EHRGIEZ 10-31-2009 07:20 AM
hahaha ive been visit subdreamer every hour to check if theres any news for SD3 :D
GusarVA 10-31-2009 07:26 AM
Probably it is necessary to consider a difference in time at me now on October, 31st 14-25:) and here what is the time now at developers interestingly?
EHRGIEZ 10-31-2009 07:32 AM
hmm the time here in forum is 6:30 am lol :D
edekk 10-31-2009 07:50 AM
Well its 31st Oct 12:50 pm here atm. :)
GusarVA 10-31-2009 08:15 AM
http://www.subdreamer.com/forum/showthread.php?t=15943
edekk 10-31-2009 09:38 AM
OMG, now i have to follow Tweater to learn something about updates. No dates, no nothing. We're sorry too Ziad but this is not acceptable, which means you're loosing another client, probably more and more will follow - too bad, for you.
olijo 10-31-2009 10:55 AM
lol who is surprised? Seriously… this is the end…
mongeron 10-31-2009 11:19 AM
Last update on Twitter is dated 8th of August. LOL. So, according to Twitter SD is dead, which surprises no-one.
If I had bought SD 3 via the pre-sales campaign, I would contact the police to start a criminal investigation on fraud. I'm happy I didn't buy it.
RandomNinjaAtk 10-31-2009 11:42 AM
Wow, guess we could a seen that one coming... :(
signalzero 10-31-2009 12:40 PM
They want you to follow twitter, because in just a little while, they will turn the forums off. Without a forum, there will really be no place to complain about updates and the lack there of.
Geiri 10-31-2009 02:37 PM
I am disappointed... I thought he would at least release a beta. Instead he does not even mention a time???
Next weak, next month or next year.
And to ask users to stop visiting the forum and follow on twitter what is that?
Ziad, Post your announcements where they should be posted. HERE
SanderS 10-31-2009 04:16 PM
Damn... What waste of time checking the forum every day for the last couple of days... Still had some naive hope, but now all I want is a refund :(
Poor communication, no new deadline, no nothing...
Prostr 10-31-2009 04:18 PM
OKay..
THis was my absolutly last patent..
What can I do, to get the money back????????????
This is SO unacceptable!!!!
animedreamz 10-31-2009 04:25 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by SanderS (Post 88282)
Damn... What waste of time checking the forum every day for the last couple of days... Still had some naive hope, but now all I want is a refund :(
Poor communication, no new deadline, no nothing...
I have to agree I dont even use SD anymore lol I dropped it 2 months after buying it for joomla because of how poor it was built. SignalZero knows something more then the rest of us. How did you know the forum would be closing when the announcement wasn't made to say that? He had a whole month to get SD3 finished(not to mention over a year to) now its I need more time dang it release what ever you have so we can at least see you did something over this past year. Fraud I dont think we would pin him with that unless your aiming to say you updated only for SD3 but they might say that its at your own risk since there is not warranty on SD.
hannay 10-31-2009 06:17 PM
That's me out. What a joke this has become!
Luckily, VB have extended the pre sale offer :)
ValsiS 10-31-2009 09:28 PM
don;t worry ... be happy
signalzero 10-31-2009 09:46 PM
How do I know. I dont know for sure, but I can speculate.
You see im old and wise, not a youngster like some and ive been around the block a few times. :) I asked many months ago with a direct email from Alice Hilal , his wife who is the office manager about the ill feelings of SD that are posted all over the internet, and back then she hinted they were thinking of closing the forums.
You see , without a forum to monitor, they dont need a MOD on staff , which im sure they pay, and there is really no place to ask about time lines and the future.
Then all you have to do is live off the newbies that sign up and then leave again.
If you want to see a good predictor of the future , just look to the past. If you look at what they have offered and done over the last 6 years compared to other CMS software, you would see its not much. Its a very small niche market, and VB and others have closed the gap, and are developing all around at a fast pace and more importantly , delivering a real product, not broken promises.
This CMS very soon is what is going to be called VaporWare.........
Loneweb 10-31-2009 11:01 PM
Happy Halloween! LOL.. wish I could say I'm surprised.
And for all you people who are talking you wish you could get your money back.. well .. while you may not.. you can report them .....
Hope a few of you see this post before they delete it and ban me.. but I dont care... VB baby VB!!!
Contact the Federal Trade Commission. When you file a complaint, big or small, with the Federal Trade Commission (FTC), this sets in motion a trend for a particular company or companies. You may think a single complaint will do nothing, but when more than one complaint comes in about a single company, the FTC will take notice.
Contact the Better Business Bureau. This is a non-profit company that has been helping consumers for a long time. They were created to keep buyers and sellers honest. The Better Business Bureau is all about integrity and trust. If the company you have done business with, or want to do business with, does not have one of the four BBB seals either at its place of business or on its website, it is in your best interest to stay away from it. Otherwise, you will find yourself filing a complaint with the Better Business Bureau.
Contact econsumer.gov. This company was created in April, 2001 due to the many on line companies that are all over the world. It was created to keep multinational Internet fraud down and to enhance consumer protection. eConsumer.gov works with all thirteen countries belonging to the International Consumer Protection Enforcement Network. The eConsumer.gov website suggests you try and resolve your complaint before filing your complaint with them. eConsumer.gov suggests you make your purchases with either a credit card, debit card or store valued card. This way, you might get relief from the credit card issuer.
Contact Internet Fraud Consumer Complaint Center. The (ICCC) was established as a partnership between the FBI and National White Collar Crimes Center. The Internet Consumer Complaint Center is created, and to this day, continues to emphasize, serving the broader law enforcement community, including the federal, state and local agencies, in combating Internet crime. Since the IC3, as it is known, was founded, it has helped consumers involved in cyber crime matters, all the way to online fraud.
Contact The National Fraud Internet Center. The National Fraud Internet Center's main purpose is to give consumer's information they need to avoid becoming victims of telemarketing or Internet fraud. The Fraud Center is operated by the National Consumer's League, which is America's oldest nonprofit consumer organization. The Fraud Center suggests you do a little homework on the company you intent to do business with. That way, you will not be a victim of their lack of integrity.
Contact the National Association of Attorneys General. Another organization you might want to consider filing a complaint with is the National Association of Attorney's General. Depending on the state you placed your order with, you can file a complaint in that state. Once you are at the Attorney General website, look for the 'contact us' link. Then, look for a link about websites and online companies. There will be a form you will fill out with all the information about the company you did business with. Once the form has been completed, you will get a response in your in box and the Attorney General in the state of your purchase will follow up on your case to see if there is a pattern of bad business practices.
bluevolt 10-31-2009 11:57 PM
All these months, I have watched these going-ons in the forums without commenting on the situation, in the hope that SD 3 will be out soon. Three deadlines have now been missed ("first half of 2009", "Sometime in July" and "shooting for October 31st") and now it is unlikely that SD 3 will be released anytime soon. For development to happen at a rapid pace, you need people, and you also need to pay people. I suspect that Tobias, Kushal and Andre left because SD was no longer interested in paying them.
So what do you make of a business which is run like a hobby, and an owner who hurls rudeness publicly on its existing customers? In one of the posts, Ziad was very defensive about people speculating, or creating 'theories'. There is a reason why customers are writing things on the forum, and that is because there is no information whatsoever from SD on what is going to happen next. Naturally, people will start posting negative feedback. If Ziad is not mature enough to understand that, then he should not be running a business for which people pay good money.
And lastly, what makes us think that SD 3 is going to be Windows 7? One has to remember that SD 3 was put into "development" more than a year back, and the presumed functions and aesthetics would have been thought of keeping the existing competition at that time. But then, there was no VB publishing suite nor updated versions of the Joomla - today, the market is full of value added, competitive products and without a strong team, SD will struggle to deliver. In the old days, SD scored because of forum integration and a thriving dev community (that is why I bought it), but now CMS's like VB suite has put an end to the forum integration USP, and the good hearted plugin contributors have moved away from SD. If you ask me, forum integration isn't all what it's cracked up to be, you can run the main website and forums separately and both will thrive.
I would still stick to SD for a while till I convert my custom skin into Joomla or Vivvo and then it is curtains for SD. Even if SD 3 releases, I am not buying - just remember that SD will not develop plug-ins, so what are you going to do with the base installation? Blog? There's wordpress for that.
speedpro50 11-01-2009 04:33 AM
We deserve an update or our money back. During the sale in June Ziad stated
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ziad
Development of Subdreamer CMS 3.0 is nearly complete
, now we have November!
speedpro50 11-01-2009 04:35 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by signalzero (Post 88287)
she hinted they were thinking of closing the forums.
Setting up a new website about Ziad and Subdreamer is a matter of minutes so I don't think closing the forums would be a wise move.
Elvis 11-01-2009 07:07 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by speedpro50 (Post 88291)
Setting up a new website about Ziad and Subdreamer is a matter of minutes so I don't think closing the forums would be a wise move.
I second that! I am totally disappointed about what's going on here. I bought new licences and renewed the old ones (somewhat around 10 of them in total) just for the promise of a new release coming soon. I can't help myself, but I feel as i was robbed ...
Perhaps someone should take some action. Since I am in germany, I have no chance to get my money back. But for those living in the USA, join your forces and show your colors. Loyal customers like us must not be treated this way ...
edekk 11-01-2009 07:57 AM
100% agree with above. Take legal actions. I feel robbed.
Pugguy 11-01-2009 08:24 AM
Im sure if you have payed on your credit card you can get a charge back for 'goods not delivered'.
Very dissapointed, it looks like vb is the way for me too...
maandag 31 augustus 2009
Another piece of feedback on SD.com
This should be nominated for deletion or moderation hence the reason i think it should be here where it will remain until Subdreamer starts listening and stops this bullshit sales of a CMS that will never come.
here's the post:
Quote:
Atska 08-31-2009 08:33 PM
Dear Subdreamer Team [Atska]
Dear Subdreamer Team.
I do not try to create a flaming thread (I hate those), but I will use this method to let you know the recent feeling I got about Subdreamer. (Why not on PM? Because the answer [If any] shall be of the public knowledge).
When I meet Subdreamer, it was by a pirated version of it (a community who was using it), so yea, after it i downloaded (pirated) and loved it. So i decided to buy a license (Same license i renew last year). Since the begning i was amazed with the plugins and discover the develop of it.
(Back in that time, 2 years ago)
1.- There was some plugins which served my needs
2.- There was a SDK for develop plugins and skins
3.- There was 'critical updates'
But, today... after 2 years...
1.- The plugins are the same (and most of them are not updated)
2.- The SDK is the same (it could be expanded with more detailed stuff)
3.- I jumped from 2.1 to 2.4 which contains some bug fixes and a 'skin allowed to save the plugin location' which was done in subdreamer.org (not by the subdreamer team [Correct me if im wrong])
4.- Subdreamer is based on PHP4 (which is already not supported by PHP), so many bugs can popup in time to time. Subdreamer is not ready for PHP 5.3 or 6. It doesnt use classes and methods (which many MANY people suggest for create a secure site) instead of use global functions.
5.- It doesnt have a well commented code (So, if u are newbie at this u will get a hard time)
6.- It doesnt use any coding/commenting standards (For example, ZendFramework Coding Formating Standard, or phpDoc commenting standard)
As far I see, we got a promise of a new version (who cares about numers [I, and Subdreamer team say]) in July. Tomorrow is October 1st (2 months later) and we only got a screenshot of the Administration panel which can be done (honeslty) with any design software, even with just some HTML and CSS mods. It doesnt show any difference from the old one (in functionality), it just show a pretty look with new colors and icons.
If the sofware was announced for release (and even with some promotions and 'inviting' people renew because of the excitment), i would think it was because the software was already in beta or ready for release. A delay of 2 months means it wasnt even ready at that time. So i may think it was some bad business and/or some abuse to the customers. While it could get fixed by 'We are sorry for the inconvenient, we are going to extend your license the months we have delayed the version'. Well, thats some really difference. But sadly, i havent seen the Subdreamer team taking any responasibility for their delay with solutions (not just apologies).
At the end of october my license is going to expire. And sadly i think i wont be able to get the new sofware. 'Renew then' most fans would say. But, after renewed my license 1 time (and I think it was an expensive one, compared to others in options, productivity, etc), i got not reelevant updates from Subdreamer in 2 years. So yea, my money could be named 'wasted'.
Why wasted? Because I would think im supporting the proyect, but if i support the proyect (like many of us) then I (and we i guess) expect more results.
'We have troubles with the team, or development, etc'. Honestly, if the proyect would be a 'hobby' or 'open source', Thats really something the customers NEED to respect. But this is a payed sofware, and customers pays for what is done and what is coming (thats why the license have an expiration time).
So, if i could resume all this drama in one word is 'disappointed'. And im not disappointed since last months. I was disappointed since last year but i put some hope and faith in the team so i renewed.
Lock, Delete or respond to this thread. But if it get deleted i hope you save it for youself, a disappointed customer is important to hear.
PS:
1.- English is not my primary language so excuse me the hard time you are going to get trying to understand it.
2.- I speak by myself. (I do not intend to speak by 'we' or 'customers'). Its merely my point of view.
3.- I try to be objective. Excuse me if i got this a bit subjective
4.- Thanks Subdreamer team, because you improved my skills when i tried to develop for your CMS time ago.
original link (if it keeps working) LINK
here's the post:
Quote:
Atska 08-31-2009 08:33 PM
Dear Subdreamer Team [Atska]
Dear Subdreamer Team.
I do not try to create a flaming thread (I hate those), but I will use this method to let you know the recent feeling I got about Subdreamer. (Why not on PM? Because the answer [If any] shall be of the public knowledge).
When I meet Subdreamer, it was by a pirated version of it (a community who was using it), so yea, after it i downloaded (pirated) and loved it. So i decided to buy a license (Same license i renew last year). Since the begning i was amazed with the plugins and discover the develop of it.
(Back in that time, 2 years ago)
1.- There was some plugins which served my needs
2.- There was a SDK for develop plugins and skins
3.- There was 'critical updates'
But, today... after 2 years...
1.- The plugins are the same (and most of them are not updated)
2.- The SDK is the same (it could be expanded with more detailed stuff)
3.- I jumped from 2.1 to 2.4 which contains some bug fixes and a 'skin allowed to save the plugin location' which was done in subdreamer.org (not by the subdreamer team [Correct me if im wrong])
4.- Subdreamer is based on PHP4 (which is already not supported by PHP), so many bugs can popup in time to time. Subdreamer is not ready for PHP 5.3 or 6. It doesnt use classes and methods (which many MANY people suggest for create a secure site) instead of use global functions.
5.- It doesnt have a well commented code (So, if u are newbie at this u will get a hard time)
6.- It doesnt use any coding/commenting standards (For example, ZendFramework Coding Formating Standard, or phpDoc commenting standard)
As far I see, we got a promise of a new version (who cares about numers [I, and Subdreamer team say]) in July. Tomorrow is October 1st (2 months later) and we only got a screenshot of the Administration panel which can be done (honeslty) with any design software, even with just some HTML and CSS mods. It doesnt show any difference from the old one (in functionality), it just show a pretty look with new colors and icons.
If the sofware was announced for release (and even with some promotions and 'inviting' people renew because of the excitment), i would think it was because the software was already in beta or ready for release. A delay of 2 months means it wasnt even ready at that time. So i may think it was some bad business and/or some abuse to the customers. While it could get fixed by 'We are sorry for the inconvenient, we are going to extend your license the months we have delayed the version'. Well, thats some really difference. But sadly, i havent seen the Subdreamer team taking any responasibility for their delay with solutions (not just apologies).
At the end of october my license is going to expire. And sadly i think i wont be able to get the new sofware. 'Renew then' most fans would say. But, after renewed my license 1 time (and I think it was an expensive one, compared to others in options, productivity, etc), i got not reelevant updates from Subdreamer in 2 years. So yea, my money could be named 'wasted'.
Why wasted? Because I would think im supporting the proyect, but if i support the proyect (like many of us) then I (and we i guess) expect more results.
'We have troubles with the team, or development, etc'. Honestly, if the proyect would be a 'hobby' or 'open source', Thats really something the customers NEED to respect. But this is a payed sofware, and customers pays for what is done and what is coming (thats why the license have an expiration time).
So, if i could resume all this drama in one word is 'disappointed'. And im not disappointed since last months. I was disappointed since last year but i put some hope and faith in the team so i renewed.
Lock, Delete or respond to this thread. But if it get deleted i hope you save it for youself, a disappointed customer is important to hear.
PS:
1.- English is not my primary language so excuse me the hard time you are going to get trying to understand it.
2.- I speak by myself. (I do not intend to speak by 'we' or 'customers'). Its merely my point of view.
3.- I try to be objective. Excuse me if i got this a bit subjective
4.- Thanks Subdreamer team, because you improved my skills when i tried to develop for your CMS time ago.
original link (if it keeps working) LINK
zaterdag 22 augustus 2009
check this out LINK security issue SD. Took a while to get this fixed .. :S
Quote:
Background information:
This report applies to Subdreamer newest stable release, 2.5.3.2 hotfix#5.
Subdreamer is a content management system, which is written in PHP and uses MySQL as its database backend. Subdreamer's home page is http://www.subdreamer.com
Subdreamer can be integrated with different forum software, so that login authentication & authorization information can be used in the CMS too.
Vulnerability description:
There are vulnerabilities in two integration modules in Subdreamer. Both Invision Power Board 2 and phpBB3 integration modules have this vulnerability.
Both bulletin board systems store browser user-agent string in the sessions table used to track currently logged in users.
The user-agent string is passed as-is from HTTP headers without any validation / escaping. This opens up a possibility for SQL Injection attacks.
Possible exploits:
I haven't found a way to directly exploit this vulnerability to access the database.
However, an indirect DoS attack is possible.
The default setting for "Send Database Errors by Email" is "On" in Subdreamer. This means that every time an error occurs in SQL processing, an E-Mail is sent to the website administrator.
Now, inserting ' in the User-agent string causes an SQL error, and therefore causes an error message to be sent to the administrator. This means that the administrator E-Mail can be flooded with error messages via this vulnerability.
How to fix:
PHPBB3:
On line 701 of includes/usersystems/phpbb3.php, the original code looks like this:
$session['session_ip'], $session['session_browser'], $session['session_page'], $session['session_viewonline'],
The code should be replaced with:
$session['session_ip'], $DB->escape_string($session['session_browser']), $session['session_page'], $session['session_viewonline'],
IPB2:
On line 215 in includes/usersystems/ipb2.php, the original line looks like this:
$DB->escape_string($session['ip_address']), $session['browser'],
This has to be replaced by:
$DB->escape_string($session['ip_address']), $DB->escape_string($session['browser']),
Vendor reaction:
A notification about IPB2 vulnerability was sent to vendor on 2008-12-15, and they confirmed that they had received the report on 2008-12-16. The bug hasn't been fixed in the current version.
A notification about phpBB3 vulnerability was sent to vendor a few months ago. There was no reaction to the report. The bug still exists in the current released version.
Tero Kilkanen
End Quote
Quote:
Background information:
This report applies to Subdreamer newest stable release, 2.5.3.2 hotfix#5.
Subdreamer is a content management system, which is written in PHP and uses MySQL as its database backend. Subdreamer's home page is http://www.subdreamer.com
Subdreamer can be integrated with different forum software, so that login authentication & authorization information can be used in the CMS too.
Vulnerability description:
There are vulnerabilities in two integration modules in Subdreamer. Both Invision Power Board 2 and phpBB3 integration modules have this vulnerability.
Both bulletin board systems store browser user-agent string in the sessions table used to track currently logged in users.
The user-agent string is passed as-is from HTTP headers without any validation / escaping. This opens up a possibility for SQL Injection attacks.
Possible exploits:
I haven't found a way to directly exploit this vulnerability to access the database.
However, an indirect DoS attack is possible.
The default setting for "Send Database Errors by Email" is "On" in Subdreamer. This means that every time an error occurs in SQL processing, an E-Mail is sent to the website administrator.
Now, inserting ' in the User-agent string causes an SQL error, and therefore causes an error message to be sent to the administrator. This means that the administrator E-Mail can be flooded with error messages via this vulnerability.
How to fix:
PHPBB3:
On line 701 of includes/usersystems/phpbb3.php, the original code looks like this:
$session['session_ip'], $session['session_browser'], $session['session_page'], $session['session_viewonline'],
The code should be replaced with:
$session['session_ip'], $DB->escape_string($session['session_browser']), $session['session_page'], $session['session_viewonline'],
IPB2:
On line 215 in includes/usersystems/ipb2.php, the original line looks like this:
$DB->escape_string($session['ip_address']), $session['browser'],
This has to be replaced by:
$DB->escape_string($session['ip_address']), $DB->escape_string($session['browser']),
Vendor reaction:
A notification about IPB2 vulnerability was sent to vendor on 2008-12-15, and they confirmed that they had received the report on 2008-12-16. The bug hasn't been fixed in the current version.
A notification about phpBB3 vulnerability was sent to vendor a few months ago. There was no reaction to the report. The bug still exists in the current released version.
Tero Kilkanen
End Quote
woensdag 19 augustus 2009
Another great "why you should not buy subdreamer" thread
Posted here before it gets deleted (again)
quote:
Prostr 08-18-2009 09:33 AM
Payback Warranty
Hey Subdreamers,
Ive renewed my license to Subdreamer for another 12 months for some weeks ago, because I thought I would be soon for the next update to Subdreamer - but I was wrong..
Now ive decided to move my website into another platform, witch is blog based and so on.
Therefore I would like to hear, if there is any possibillity to have my money or some of it, payed back?
Because I really dont feel that I get anything out of my money as Ive spend on this, this time.
Thanks
blueracer66 08-18-2009 11:13 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Prostr (Post 87737)
Hey Subdreamers,
Ive renewed my license to Subdreamer for another 12 months for some weeks ago, because I thought I would be soon for the next update to Subdreamer - but I was wrong..
Now ive decided to move my website into another platform, witch is blog based and so on.
Therefore I would like to hear, if there is any possibillity to have my money or some of it, payed back?
Because I really dont feel that I get anything out of my money as Ive spend on this, this time.
Thanks
I'm sorry to tell you but they won't give it back... :(
Prostr 08-18-2009 12:16 PM
Hmm..................... I really think that suck, if that is what really is the reality for me.. Seriously!
Brent 08-18-2009 01:47 PM
The purchases are non refundable but the license warranty status would transfer if you ever sold your license.
Regards
amasilviama 08-18-2009 02:12 PM
Who would buy something that doesn't exist ?
Hello Brent,
You said that he can sell his license, at least that's what i understood. What i want to ask is this : who in the world would buy something that never comes to you ? This is the reason why i don't renew my license, because you are not serious enough. No plugins, no skins, no nothing... You basically give the platform and everybody for him/her/self... You launched a short series of plugins and skins and that's all... I find it normal that few people wants your products... I want to say that i own a web directory, on a CMS. It works like a charm, no problems, with all that you need. So, it must be another CMS that i, or other people, might consider. You said in July subdreamer 3 would be released...i was thinking that if the members's opinions were positive, i would renew my license and have subdreamer 3... it's august, almost to the end, and things are going slower than a snail.... You say that the purchases are not refundable, but not keeping your word to your customers is ok ? Is this your opinion ? What is the respect for your members and, finally, your customers ? .................................................. .................................................. .
blueracer66 08-18-2009 02:47 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by amasilviama (Post 87741)
Hello Brent,
You said that he can sell his license, at least that's what i understood. What i want to ask is this : who in the world would buy something that never comes to you ? This is the reason why i don't renew my license, because you are not serious enough. No plugins, no skins, no nothing... You basically give the platform and everybody for him/her/self... You launched a short series of plugins and skins and that's all... I find it normal that few people wants your products... I want to say that i own a web directory, on a CMS. It works like a charm, no problems, with all that you need. So, it must be another CMS that i, or other people, might consider. You said in July subdreamer 3 would be released...i was thinking that if the members's opinions were positive, i would renew my license and have subdreamer 3... it's august, almost to the end, and things are going slower than a snail.... You say that the purchases are not refundable, but not keeping your word to your customers is ok ? Is this your opinion ? What is the respect for your members and, finally, your customers ? .................................................. .................................................. .
I loved it.-_-
Loneweb 08-18-2009 04:00 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by blueracer66 (Post 87742)
I loved it.-_-
Me too... to bad the powers that be wont leave it.
edekk 08-18-2009 06:01 PM
Unfortunately have to agree. Many people like me bought / renew theire license when it was 50% price cut off, but we all did it because you told us that Subdreamer 3 is almost ready to release.... That was like 1,5 month ago.
CleanDesigndk 08-19-2009 01:16 AM
Please remember that cheating customers to buy a "non existing product" is against the law in the U.S and/or other countries.
And because of this, the law says that if you ( the customer ) buys a product and are unhappy with it, then you can ask for the money back in 14 days (this is the law in EU and i think its the same in the U.S)
Elvis 08-19-2009 01:49 AM
As I allready said before: I can't stand the feeling that I was a victim of a "drive-by-robbery". At least that's what the "50% off"-thing makes me feel ...
All times are GMT -5. The time now is 02:23 AM.
end quote
quote:
Prostr 08-18-2009 09:33 AM
Payback Warranty
Hey Subdreamers,
Ive renewed my license to Subdreamer for another 12 months for some weeks ago, because I thought I would be soon for the next update to Subdreamer - but I was wrong..
Now ive decided to move my website into another platform, witch is blog based and so on.
Therefore I would like to hear, if there is any possibillity to have my money or some of it, payed back?
Because I really dont feel that I get anything out of my money as Ive spend on this, this time.
Thanks
blueracer66 08-18-2009 11:13 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Prostr (Post 87737)
Hey Subdreamers,
Ive renewed my license to Subdreamer for another 12 months for some weeks ago, because I thought I would be soon for the next update to Subdreamer - but I was wrong..
Now ive decided to move my website into another platform, witch is blog based and so on.
Therefore I would like to hear, if there is any possibillity to have my money or some of it, payed back?
Because I really dont feel that I get anything out of my money as Ive spend on this, this time.
Thanks
I'm sorry to tell you but they won't give it back... :(
Prostr 08-18-2009 12:16 PM
Hmm..................... I really think that suck, if that is what really is the reality for me.. Seriously!
Brent 08-18-2009 01:47 PM
The purchases are non refundable but the license warranty status would transfer if you ever sold your license.
Regards
amasilviama 08-18-2009 02:12 PM
Who would buy something that doesn't exist ?
Hello Brent,
You said that he can sell his license, at least that's what i understood. What i want to ask is this : who in the world would buy something that never comes to you ? This is the reason why i don't renew my license, because you are not serious enough. No plugins, no skins, no nothing... You basically give the platform and everybody for him/her/self... You launched a short series of plugins and skins and that's all... I find it normal that few people wants your products... I want to say that i own a web directory, on a CMS. It works like a charm, no problems, with all that you need. So, it must be another CMS that i, or other people, might consider. You said in July subdreamer 3 would be released...i was thinking that if the members's opinions were positive, i would renew my license and have subdreamer 3... it's august, almost to the end, and things are going slower than a snail.... You say that the purchases are not refundable, but not keeping your word to your customers is ok ? Is this your opinion ? What is the respect for your members and, finally, your customers ? .................................................. .................................................. .
blueracer66 08-18-2009 02:47 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by amasilviama (Post 87741)
Hello Brent,
You said that he can sell his license, at least that's what i understood. What i want to ask is this : who in the world would buy something that never comes to you ? This is the reason why i don't renew my license, because you are not serious enough. No plugins, no skins, no nothing... You basically give the platform and everybody for him/her/self... You launched a short series of plugins and skins and that's all... I find it normal that few people wants your products... I want to say that i own a web directory, on a CMS. It works like a charm, no problems, with all that you need. So, it must be another CMS that i, or other people, might consider. You said in July subdreamer 3 would be released...i was thinking that if the members's opinions were positive, i would renew my license and have subdreamer 3... it's august, almost to the end, and things are going slower than a snail.... You say that the purchases are not refundable, but not keeping your word to your customers is ok ? Is this your opinion ? What is the respect for your members and, finally, your customers ? .................................................. .................................................. .
I loved it.-_-
Loneweb 08-18-2009 04:00 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by blueracer66 (Post 87742)
I loved it.-_-
Me too... to bad the powers that be wont leave it.
edekk 08-18-2009 06:01 PM
Unfortunately have to agree. Many people like me bought / renew theire license when it was 50% price cut off, but we all did it because you told us that Subdreamer 3 is almost ready to release.... That was like 1,5 month ago.
CleanDesigndk 08-19-2009 01:16 AM
Please remember that cheating customers to buy a "non existing product" is against the law in the U.S and/or other countries.
And because of this, the law says that if you ( the customer ) buys a product and are unhappy with it, then you can ask for the money back in 14 days (this is the law in EU and i think its the same in the U.S)
Elvis 08-19-2009 01:49 AM
As I allready said before: I can't stand the feeling that I was a victim of a "drive-by-robbery". At least that's what the "50% off"-thing makes me feel ...
All times are GMT -5. The time now is 02:23 AM.
end quote
zondag 19 juli 2009
To link or not to link ..
Came across this page which adores Subdreamer. It seems if the owner of SD made this site but the main interest is the links.. check this out..
http://ninepx.com/ (IGGYS Ninepx Media)
Subdreamer skins, plugins, and assistance.
Dead, check the download section :)
www.ohareportal.com (Ohare Portal)
Home of RandomNinaAtk &
Some of the best Subdreamer media related plugins available!
Very much alive, hanging with his fingernails on the edge ;)
www.72dpi.net.au - (72dpi's Homepage)
72dpi offers web hosting, tutorials, code and more for professional business and personal websites alike featuring plugins and more related to Subdreamer.
One of my favorites.. went completely Joomla hahaha now that is a smart person!!!
www.thedeadrat.com - (Dead Rat)
Homepage of 'HeavyEddie', one of Subdreamers top community contributors/developers.
Dead as a rat, Eddie went away a long time ago... good choice..
www.indiqo.eu - (indiqo.media)
indiqo.media is one of the premier design studio's on the web who use their artistic abilities to create visually stunning pages that retain functionality. They are the creators of many of Subdreamers finest skins.
Nice guy, still alive but so biased as his income is Subdreamer dependent ..
www.jaspersrealm.com - (Jaspers Realm)
Custom Subdreamer Solution provider. Skins, plugins and more.
Dead....
www.sddepot.com - (Subdreamer Depot)
Website providing custom skins and plugins for Subdreamer CMS.
Dead....
www.brilliantwebsolutions.co.uk - (Brilliant Web Solutions)
Provides custom addons and enhancements for the Subdreamer CMS System, most notably the PayPal Addon for Subdreamer Download Manager.
Dead....
Cool huh? This great showcase can be found here http://www.gustoes.com/links/p16_sectionid/2
http://ninepx.com/ (IGGYS Ninepx Media)
Subdreamer skins, plugins, and assistance.
Dead, check the download section :)
www.ohareportal.com (Ohare Portal)
Home of RandomNinaAtk &
Some of the best Subdreamer media related plugins available!
Very much alive, hanging with his fingernails on the edge ;)
www.72dpi.net.au - (72dpi's Homepage)
72dpi offers web hosting, tutorials, code and more for professional business and personal websites alike featuring plugins and more related to Subdreamer.
One of my favorites.. went completely Joomla hahaha now that is a smart person!!!
www.thedeadrat.com - (Dead Rat)
Homepage of 'HeavyEddie', one of Subdreamers top community contributors/developers.
Dead as a rat, Eddie went away a long time ago... good choice..
www.indiqo.eu - (indiqo.media)
indiqo.media is one of the premier design studio's on the web who use their artistic abilities to create visually stunning pages that retain functionality. They are the creators of many of Subdreamers finest skins.
Nice guy, still alive but so biased as his income is Subdreamer dependent ..
www.jaspersrealm.com - (Jaspers Realm)
Custom Subdreamer Solution provider. Skins, plugins and more.
Dead....
www.sddepot.com - (Subdreamer Depot)
Website providing custom skins and plugins for Subdreamer CMS.
Dead....
www.brilliantwebsolutions.co.uk - (Brilliant Web Solutions)
Provides custom addons and enhancements for the Subdreamer CMS System, most notably the PayPal Addon for Subdreamer Download Manager.
Dead....
Cool huh? This great showcase can be found here http://www.gustoes.com/links/p16_sectionid/2
The harder you squeeze
As i am still following the SD movements and and amazed by the amount of patience some people have. We have been reading for over 14 months about new versions and such.
First there was a 2.6, then a 2.8 and the holy grail would be 3.0. In the meantime they skipped 2.6 all together.. state that they will offer a small update and in the meantime change licensing policy. This will offer only yearly contracts on the " pro" version.
Looks to me he is harvesting as much money as he can from many suckers willing to pay for nothing.
Even the die hard followers know it in their heart... people who do not allow any critical voice on their product what so ever are not to be trusted in the end..
They will sucker you, take my word i have been long enough on this globe to know this ;)
So today another thread on vague promises and people getting tired of waiting was deleted from existence ... which led me back here... to warn you about Subdreamer CMS software. Whatever you do.. do NOT buy this.. don' t believe me? Do your own research... post a thread on the forum with critical questions and challenge the man for anything. You will get deleted and even banned ...
Do you trust a person like that?
My saying for the day.. "The harder you squeeze, the more will slip through your fingers..."
Don't buy Subdreamer CMS!
First there was a 2.6, then a 2.8 and the holy grail would be 3.0. In the meantime they skipped 2.6 all together.. state that they will offer a small update and in the meantime change licensing policy. This will offer only yearly contracts on the " pro" version.
Looks to me he is harvesting as much money as he can from many suckers willing to pay for nothing.
Even the die hard followers know it in their heart... people who do not allow any critical voice on their product what so ever are not to be trusted in the end..
They will sucker you, take my word i have been long enough on this globe to know this ;)
So today another thread on vague promises and people getting tired of waiting was deleted from existence ... which led me back here... to warn you about Subdreamer CMS software. Whatever you do.. do NOT buy this.. don' t believe me? Do your own research... post a thread on the forum with critical questions and challenge the man for anything. You will get deleted and even banned ...
Do you trust a person like that?
My saying for the day.. "The harder you squeeze, the more will slip through your fingers..."
Don't buy Subdreamer CMS!
zondag 17 mei 2009
zaterdag 16 mei 2009
Always fun to copy paste threads that are bound to be deleted. When they are here they stay forever!!! So people might find this horror before spending money on a dead product. Read on future subhell owners... read on and turn around go gogo while you still can :)
Original thread HERE (if it is still there of course ;)
removed
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Old 03-12-2009, 12:12 PM #2
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All that is the work of one very angry old Subdreamer customer who wasn't given everything he wanted. Our company is no longer located in Florida, I moved away from there over 2 years ago.
Nothing to get worried over, just one upset customer trying to cause as much trouble as he can. We're still alive and kicking, working very hard to release new software including Subdreamer CMS 3. I know there has been a big silence from us, but I'll just take this little time to assure everyone that some incredible new software is coming out this year by us. When I get more time I'll start posting information in a new blog.
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Old 03-12-2009, 01:49 PM #3
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Ziad, thanks for reassuring us that sub dreamer is still alive and well
I for one like the software. and will be around for another year. however.. you must see the mood around the software isnt what it was when I purchased it just over a year ago. the whole thing has slowed down to a point where people have posted wondering if the project was dead. others begging for plug-in updates.. template updates... perhaps some kind of progress update in the forums both here.. and the main subdreamer site to give a estimated date of the next release..if not some updates to the more popular plug-ins or templates... as the forums are where alot of potential customers go to read what others are saying about the software before they buy... I see the signs of some unhappy people.. and that cant remain profitable. Just some of my observations..
I hope things pick up and Sub Dreamer continues for many years to come.
Looking forward to SD 3.0
LWS
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Old 03-12-2009, 02:28 PM #4
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Ziad, as a customer it has been very difficult this past year and a half waiting on promises from your company, especially when 'live avatars' got updated recently.
It almost seems like there is no focus or a lack of commitment towards SubDreamer customers. It is even more difficult to hold loyalty when I have recommended your product to various clients and then have had to find ways around SubDreamers short comings from your promised new versions to plugin creations or updates.
Often I find myself implementing new ways of fulfilling my client’s needs because of this lack of progress from promises, which has increased both my programming and html skills, so I guess I could in a round about way thank you for that. However this is not the reason I purchased or recommended SubDreamer, I did so because of its ease of use, which seems by comparison to other CMS’s, very dated now.
I have to say I understand this guy's 'whinnyness', but I have also been an out spoken member here and on .com for improvements, where many have agreed, so from this perspective I know what he is complaining about. It is very difficult at times only to hear from one person, Brent, who was at time very gruff with his responses or even non responsive, but I am happy to say has improved immensely. So Thank you Brent.
Customer Services
It is even more disappointing that there are no new articles on techniques on how use SubDreamer on either .com or .org, which would be at least a step to produce customer retention. This simple little task by either contribution or by staff to demonstrate creative ways to use SubDreamer would go a long way for customer retention and building a new customer base.
A core team of experienced members I am sure would step up to the plate to build a GOOD FAQ plugin that could be used on .com and/or .org site for the simple trade off of an extra year on their license.
During this past year I have sought out several talented plugin creators to ask why they have left the SubDreamer community and gone on to other CMS’s, and it deals with simple customer service and lack of update issues.
Marketing
Why is SubDreamer still not on CMS Matrix?
Why do you not have an affiliate program?
Simple ideas to generate income to further get quality programmers or staff. It is hard to watch this great CMS loose talented community members because the application itself is not progressing at regular intervals at least something new once a quarter other than another skin with generic layouts.
I hope you understand this was not a way of bashing you or SubDreamer, but an honest review of what goes on in some of your customers minds….it takes so little to step up to retain a customer, but so much more to convert a customer back.
I eagerly await SD3.0 and would be happy to continue to give an honest feed back as a beta tester if you would have me.
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Old 03-12-2009, 10:05 PM #5
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After reading William's post, I must say between him and LWS you've simply taken the words right from my mouth almost. I feel the same way.
Personally I love Subdreamer, and like developing for it, but as many as stated, it just seems to feel as a dying project, which as of late, you've increased my hope by being around again, Ziad. My company has created 30 plugins, some very simple ones and a number of skins!! But I would consider my company/me a very big supporter and one of the few companies that are left. Of the companies/business's I'm aware and there status:
SDSkins2go - alive
Business Plugins - alive
OHare Portal - alive, but undergoing a restructure (my company)
SDDepot - Dead
Brilliant Web Solutions (something like that) - Dead (sold off product to SDDepot)
Subdreamer Mods (also known as another name but can't remember - Dead
I'm really looking forward to Subdreamer 3.0 (eta 1st half of this year, so a june release). I've looked at other products and can't find anything that compares in a lot of ways, simplicity of use wise, and actual content control, most other CMS's seem more like glorified Blogs then an actual CMS, in my opinion.
I'm starting to do a lot of reselling with Subdreamer, which is bringing more clients through me, but I still have a deep concern as William has stated with the lack of progress.... (not saying there isn't progress, just hardly evident).
So I hope this year is a big turn around for the company. I have lots of ideas, and would love to help my client base grow, but also indirectly helps Subdreamer grow as I have more clients/licenses.
Anyways thats just some thoughts to add to the conversation...
--Steven
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Old 03-13-2009, 01:29 AM #6
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What about me? I am still around.
Plugin sales are going great.
SD3 still seems a long way off - 6mths plus would be my estimate.
Just think how much time developers and users will need for changeover from 2.6 -> 3
I know for us at BusinessPlugins.com we would wait a few months for a stable core system before upgrading plugins for sd3
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Old 03-13-2009, 09:38 AM #7
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Woah, yeah my bad, sorry to leave you off the list, had been a really long day for me Thomas!!!
--Steven
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Old 03-13-2009, 04:18 PM #8
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hehehe...Steven got OWNED LOL j/k
Yes Thomas has done some wonderful work.
But on your statement, Thomas, about moving from 2.6 -> 3, the only thing that has been stated in the new skin system will be vastly different...I would imagine that Ziad would take in to consideration not altering the plugin side much. I mean it seems to work very well comparably to other CMS's, so it kinda brings up the point of if it isn't broken, don't tinker with it.
But on the other hand I could see lots of improvements to plugin logic, but as you made mention it would take some effort to convert the plugins to a new logic style. I for one would just like to see all plugins out there currently updated to function properly with even 2.6. I know it's not a SubDreamer issue as many are user submitted, however with the growing popularity of plugins for other CMS's it would behove SD to rethink to relauch 3.0 very strongly with all updated plugins.
Just my .02
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Old 04-04-2009, 09:13 AM #9
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As a non-programmer and simple webmaster using SubDreamer I have to agree with the above as well. I have purchased paid plugins and have had several custom plugins written for pay - so I have a serious financial investment in SubDreamer. When I first went that path years ago it had issues - but was very cool and promising. It's core technology hasn't really changed while all the other CMS's have come light years since then. It is a painful and expensive process to move to another solution - but the utter silence from SubDreamer has forced me to being migration to vBadvanced Dynamics, a full database driven CMS frontend for vBulletin (which is what I used SD for) that can use the 1,000+ plugins from CMPS.
Don't get me wrong, the SD attraction was the simple, clean look and feel. vBa products extend vBulletin and carry with them the more complicated look and feel. Due to the nature of my site I have mostly non-technical members that are very computer challenged and just want the cleanest look. Due to my existing investments to integrate things like PhotoPost, PhotoReviews, FlashChat and about a dozen other things I would love to see nothing more than a revival of SD. Obviously AJAX and other Web 2.0 tech's need to be mainstream and security needs to...well...start existing.
Please take this as constructive...I am not slamming SD. Security is a major issue. Now, SD as a standalone product with no plugins other than default, the default skin and no integrations with anything else and it is OK security wise. (Still been hacked - apache and SNORT logs sent to support team a long time ago...). The problem is that SD is so lacking in updated features that any serious web site must rely on additional skins, plugins, third party application integration, etc. There is sometimes no good way to accomplish these things. The FlashChat integration posted on SD's .org site for example, led to a site hack. If SD is to survive then it needs to expand the avaialble functionality and standardize on a way to integrate to avoid such issues. There also needs to be significant improvements in security. Protected directories are a start, but I would love to see at least plugins that did configurable geo-location filtering, brute force attempt intruder lockout, in-site backup/restore of site and databases, MD5 hashing with email alerting of particular directories, etc. These are things that other CMS products have greatly increase security that CMS has never even mentioned.
Again, I wish you guy(s) the best, but I have my doubts. For example, the site was recently down and AFTERWARDS we were told it was a server move gone bad. Well, as a 20 year I.T. pro, servers rarely get moved without some notification to users - especially ones that are paying for your software. I find it either hard to believe or unprofessional (you choose) that this is what happened. It is more likely that the site was hacked and this was the cover story. Again, with more open communications from the dev team maybe this would have been a non issue?
I hope SD 3 is released soon and blows us all away with it's greatness and I can safely feel warm and fuzzy about using it. That would make me happy. :-) Until then...Plan B has got to move forward since there is nothing new int eh downloads section here and status quo will simply not work.
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Old 04-04-2009, 10:09 AM #10
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Not knowing eats me the most, is it on or is it off ...
A few comments every now and then or a simple progress bar to tell how far the work has gone would be nice.
I wont denie am allways looking out for new CMS's but I have a few SD licenses and I like the SD product verry much.
We might not need Subdreamer 3 ASAP but a small update to Sd2.6 wich is allready verry stable and only needs some minor fixing, would give us somthing to work with and be a good injection for the community.
I upgraded my SD last desmeber just to show my support and to give some money to the project.
I think more users should do the same. We will be rewarded in the end with a good ongoing community and product.
I wont give up easyle on Subdreamer and I will stick with it at least throug out this year.
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Writing the above post led to a conversation with a couple friends of mine - both active webmasters over a combined 15 or so sites. They are not SD fans and brought up a good point that the SD dev team should consider...
To build a small personal web site with a few pages and not much content takes less than an afternoon. Someone that wants to get fancy with this type of site may buy SD. It is easy to build a site with - easy to walk away and start over if SD goes away.
People building sites with the intention of 500+ registered members and integration to a forum package and other applications have a totally different set of concerns. These people are willing to give up features and functions if they know two things: (1) The site is secure, and (2) The products used are actively being developed and keeping pace with technology.
SubDreamer is in a tough place. For the personal site it is expensive given the many free, well supported alternatives like Joomla. For the larger sites, given the long periods of silence, there is just no way to justify starting a site today with SD. Most of the remaining customers are ones that have a vested interest - like me - in an existing site with custom coding.
I do not know the personal situation of the owners of SD. I strongly suspect that SD does not pay the bills. Could it though? Through advertising, getting the word out, releasing updates more frequently and generating sales..? Bring back the warm and fuzzy feeling that you love us...please?
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Old 04-07-2009, 01:01 AM #12
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I run a website using SD mostly as a nice looking shell/frontpage with almost all my content based on my vBulletin-forum. So far I've been happy with SD, but the lack of visible improvement/development is beginning to get at me.
I've noticed that the coming vBulletin 4.0. will move more in the direction af an actual CMS-system, which of cause will make me consider my future on the SD-platform, unless something positive will happen. The lack of information on a regular basis is unsettling.
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Old 04-12-2009, 08:42 PM #13
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My license expired and I didn't get any major software updates during the whole year. I won't update my license until the SD3 come out.
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Old 04-25-2009, 02:08 AM #14
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Thats a Good Idea.......ditto!
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Old 04-28-2009, 12:57 AM #15
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That's what I'll do, too! The lack of information about the future of SD is killing me. I allready thought about changing the CMS ...
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Old 04-29-2009, 05:02 AM #16
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Elvis,
Im already past the thinking stage
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Old 04-29-2009, 07:28 AM #17
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Elvis,
Im already past the thinking stage
How's your Drupal-powered website coming along?
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Old 04-29-2009, 09:31 AM #18
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Amazing.
Should have started there , instead of ending up there, if you know what I mean
I still have a few running Subdreamer, but they will suffer the same fate im afraid.
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Old 04-29-2009, 10:29 AM #19
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Amazing.
Should have started there , instead of ending up there, if you know what I mean
I still have a few running Subdreamer, but they will suffer the same fate im afraid.
I am switching most of my websites to Wordpress instead.
I don't know about you but I'm kind of tired for paying for custom-built plugins.
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Old 04-29-2009, 03:28 PM #20
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I've looked at other CMS's and solutions, but didn't come up with any in my opinion, to many of them were basically blogs with more features, and I wouldn't really call that a cms. Where as subdreamer you have full control.
Things like wordpress, drupal and many others are all pretty much article management with lots of extras to give it more abilities, but in the end I didn't find it to be a actual CMS, like subdreamer is....
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If I had several businesses dependent on the CMS, I would say the exact same thing too.
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Old 04-29-2009, 05:40 PM #22
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If I had several businesses dependent on the CMS, I would say the exact same thing too.
signalzero did it for the LULz!
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Old 04-29-2009, 10:26 PM #23
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I actually only have 1 sector of my comapny that relies on it. So its not several, and no I was being honest.
Wordpress, Drupal and many others, don't give you content control that you have in subdreamer. Such as choosing where the content goes on every page. Most of them felt like Article Management/blogs with a lot of added features. I've tried many. Also that is not the case with all of them though, but on a usability standpoint (ease of use), subdreamer is far superior. Like Joomla I would not consider in the Article Management/blogs, whereas its more a true CMS, like subdreamer. Expect its a pain to use in comparison. And don't give me that excuse just because I have vested interest. I do and thats not a lie. But at least with the dozen or so CMS, I didn't find many that were what I would call a CMS (as I've stated before). Most of my business is through hosting, and I do love subdreamer.
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Old 04-30-2009, 04:50 AM #24
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I have to agree with steven. I have looked at others in a full comparision and I keep coming back to SD. But I have spent alot of time creating extra plugins and mods to be better than the other CMS's
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Old 04-30-2009, 05:13 AM #25
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You have your opinion and it wasn't an excuse.
I have a site up on another CMS, and have been playing with it for some time now. I think having 5 subdreamer sites give me the advantage of knowing what it can and can not do.
I will say in no way can it compare to what Drupal can do. CCK ( Content Creation Kit ) and Taxonomy is a very very power combination and does way more. Until you use it and understand it, just comparing it doesn't do it justice.
Ease of use , Subdreamer is by far easier to use, I wont argue that. At a certain point, you need to get under the hood and see what power it has and what it can do. I certainly can do more, with alot less hacking and tweaking than I ever could do in SD. I also have had some HUGE modules written that can do what SD cant.
We wont even discuss the amount of plugins and bridges available compared to SD.
This isnt a slam against anyone, its a honest , open review. SD has its place , and for me , my subscription has expired, and I see a huge gap in development and a severe lack of open , honest communication from the company.
If I were in your position , I too would be concerned that you are running a business mostly dependent on this CMS. The end user needs a CMS that also grows and matures , and this one is NOT. Mine has had 6 releases this year alone, how many has SD had ?
Don't think I am the lone voice. In this economic climate, people aren't going to pay for things that don't work, or that aren't progressing as they should.
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Old Today, 07:31 AM #26
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a 100 years ago the horse was far superior to any other means of transportation.. see what happened to that. CRT was far superior to LCD, see what happened. Big gasoline gusting cars where superior, look what most drive these days.
Result earned in the past do not guarantee the future. You are as good as you last product it is as simple as that.
A product can be as good as it is but if not sustained, supported and maintained then it is like pulling a dead horse,failure imminent.
All i see at this forum and the .com is vanishing posts, vague promises on new releases (started somewhere early 2007 as far as i can track back!!!) and many many many deleted threads, posts with people that never post again, weird. Noticed a Hotscript revue, well hmm not very good at all
Original thread HERE (if it is still there of course ;)
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Old 03-12-2009, 12:12 PM #2
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All that is the work of one very angry old Subdreamer customer who wasn't given everything he wanted. Our company is no longer located in Florida, I moved away from there over 2 years ago.
Nothing to get worried over, just one upset customer trying to cause as much trouble as he can. We're still alive and kicking, working very hard to release new software including Subdreamer CMS 3. I know there has been a big silence from us, but I'll just take this little time to assure everyone that some incredible new software is coming out this year by us. When I get more time I'll start posting information in a new blog.
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Old 03-12-2009, 01:49 PM #3
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Ziad, thanks for reassuring us that sub dreamer is still alive and well
I for one like the software. and will be around for another year. however.. you must see the mood around the software isnt what it was when I purchased it just over a year ago. the whole thing has slowed down to a point where people have posted wondering if the project was dead. others begging for plug-in updates.. template updates... perhaps some kind of progress update in the forums both here.. and the main subdreamer site to give a estimated date of the next release..if not some updates to the more popular plug-ins or templates... as the forums are where alot of potential customers go to read what others are saying about the software before they buy... I see the signs of some unhappy people.. and that cant remain profitable. Just some of my observations..
I hope things pick up and Sub Dreamer continues for many years to come.
Looking forward to SD 3.0
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Old 03-12-2009, 02:28 PM #4
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Ziad, as a customer it has been very difficult this past year and a half waiting on promises from your company, especially when 'live avatars' got updated recently.
It almost seems like there is no focus or a lack of commitment towards SubDreamer customers. It is even more difficult to hold loyalty when I have recommended your product to various clients and then have had to find ways around SubDreamers short comings from your promised new versions to plugin creations or updates.
Often I find myself implementing new ways of fulfilling my client’s needs because of this lack of progress from promises, which has increased both my programming and html skills, so I guess I could in a round about way thank you for that. However this is not the reason I purchased or recommended SubDreamer, I did so because of its ease of use, which seems by comparison to other CMS’s, very dated now.
I have to say I understand this guy's 'whinnyness', but I have also been an out spoken member here and on .com for improvements, where many have agreed, so from this perspective I know what he is complaining about. It is very difficult at times only to hear from one person, Brent, who was at time very gruff with his responses or even non responsive, but I am happy to say has improved immensely. So Thank you Brent.
Customer Services
It is even more disappointing that there are no new articles on techniques on how use SubDreamer on either .com or .org, which would be at least a step to produce customer retention. This simple little task by either contribution or by staff to demonstrate creative ways to use SubDreamer would go a long way for customer retention and building a new customer base.
A core team of experienced members I am sure would step up to the plate to build a GOOD FAQ plugin that could be used on .com and/or .org site for the simple trade off of an extra year on their license.
During this past year I have sought out several talented plugin creators to ask why they have left the SubDreamer community and gone on to other CMS’s, and it deals with simple customer service and lack of update issues.
Marketing
Why is SubDreamer still not on CMS Matrix?
Why do you not have an affiliate program?
Simple ideas to generate income to further get quality programmers or staff. It is hard to watch this great CMS loose talented community members because the application itself is not progressing at regular intervals at least something new once a quarter other than another skin with generic layouts.
I hope you understand this was not a way of bashing you or SubDreamer, but an honest review of what goes on in some of your customers minds….it takes so little to step up to retain a customer, but so much more to convert a customer back.
I eagerly await SD3.0 and would be happy to continue to give an honest feed back as a beta tester if you would have me.
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Old 03-12-2009, 10:05 PM #5
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After reading William's post, I must say between him and LWS you've simply taken the words right from my mouth almost. I feel the same way.
Personally I love Subdreamer, and like developing for it, but as many as stated, it just seems to feel as a dying project, which as of late, you've increased my hope by being around again, Ziad. My company has created 30 plugins, some very simple ones and a number of skins!! But I would consider my company/me a very big supporter and one of the few companies that are left. Of the companies/business's I'm aware and there status:
SDSkins2go - alive
Business Plugins - alive
OHare Portal - alive, but undergoing a restructure (my company)
SDDepot - Dead
Brilliant Web Solutions (something like that) - Dead (sold off product to SDDepot)
Subdreamer Mods (also known as another name but can't remember - Dead
I'm really looking forward to Subdreamer 3.0 (eta 1st half of this year, so a june release). I've looked at other products and can't find anything that compares in a lot of ways, simplicity of use wise, and actual content control, most other CMS's seem more like glorified Blogs then an actual CMS, in my opinion.
I'm starting to do a lot of reselling with Subdreamer, which is bringing more clients through me, but I still have a deep concern as William has stated with the lack of progress.... (not saying there isn't progress, just hardly evident).
So I hope this year is a big turn around for the company. I have lots of ideas, and would love to help my client base grow, but also indirectly helps Subdreamer grow as I have more clients/licenses.
Anyways thats just some thoughts to add to the conversation...
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Old 03-13-2009, 01:29 AM #6
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What about me? I am still around.
Plugin sales are going great.
SD3 still seems a long way off - 6mths plus would be my estimate.
Just think how much time developers and users will need for changeover from 2.6 -> 3
I know for us at BusinessPlugins.com we would wait a few months for a stable core system before upgrading plugins for sd3
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Old 03-13-2009, 09:38 AM #7
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Woah, yeah my bad, sorry to leave you off the list, had been a really long day for me Thomas!!!
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Old 03-13-2009, 04:18 PM #8
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hehehe...Steven got OWNED LOL j/k
Yes Thomas has done some wonderful work.
But on your statement, Thomas, about moving from 2.6 -> 3, the only thing that has been stated in the new skin system will be vastly different...I would imagine that Ziad would take in to consideration not altering the plugin side much. I mean it seems to work very well comparably to other CMS's, so it kinda brings up the point of if it isn't broken, don't tinker with it.
But on the other hand I could see lots of improvements to plugin logic, but as you made mention it would take some effort to convert the plugins to a new logic style. I for one would just like to see all plugins out there currently updated to function properly with even 2.6. I know it's not a SubDreamer issue as many are user submitted, however with the growing popularity of plugins for other CMS's it would behove SD to rethink to relauch 3.0 very strongly with all updated plugins.
Just my .02
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Old 04-04-2009, 09:13 AM #9
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As a non-programmer and simple webmaster using SubDreamer I have to agree with the above as well. I have purchased paid plugins and have had several custom plugins written for pay - so I have a serious financial investment in SubDreamer. When I first went that path years ago it had issues - but was very cool and promising. It's core technology hasn't really changed while all the other CMS's have come light years since then. It is a painful and expensive process to move to another solution - but the utter silence from SubDreamer has forced me to being migration to vBadvanced Dynamics, a full database driven CMS frontend for vBulletin (which is what I used SD for) that can use the 1,000+ plugins from CMPS.
Don't get me wrong, the SD attraction was the simple, clean look and feel. vBa products extend vBulletin and carry with them the more complicated look and feel. Due to the nature of my site I have mostly non-technical members that are very computer challenged and just want the cleanest look. Due to my existing investments to integrate things like PhotoPost, PhotoReviews, FlashChat and about a dozen other things I would love to see nothing more than a revival of SD. Obviously AJAX and other Web 2.0 tech's need to be mainstream and security needs to...well...start existing.
Please take this as constructive...I am not slamming SD. Security is a major issue. Now, SD as a standalone product with no plugins other than default, the default skin and no integrations with anything else and it is OK security wise. (Still been hacked - apache and SNORT logs sent to support team a long time ago...). The problem is that SD is so lacking in updated features that any serious web site must rely on additional skins, plugins, third party application integration, etc. There is sometimes no good way to accomplish these things. The FlashChat integration posted on SD's .org site for example, led to a site hack. If SD is to survive then it needs to expand the avaialble functionality and standardize on a way to integrate to avoid such issues. There also needs to be significant improvements in security. Protected directories are a start, but I would love to see at least plugins that did configurable geo-location filtering, brute force attempt intruder lockout, in-site backup/restore of site and databases, MD5 hashing with email alerting of particular directories, etc. These are things that other CMS products have greatly increase security that CMS has never even mentioned.
Again, I wish you guy(s) the best, but I have my doubts. For example, the site was recently down and AFTERWARDS we were told it was a server move gone bad. Well, as a 20 year I.T. pro, servers rarely get moved without some notification to users - especially ones that are paying for your software. I find it either hard to believe or unprofessional (you choose) that this is what happened. It is more likely that the site was hacked and this was the cover story. Again, with more open communications from the dev team maybe this would have been a non issue?
I hope SD 3 is released soon and blows us all away with it's greatness and I can safely feel warm and fuzzy about using it. That would make me happy. :-) Until then...Plan B has got to move forward since there is nothing new int eh downloads section here and status quo will simply not work.
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Old 04-04-2009, 10:09 AM #10
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Not knowing eats me the most, is it on or is it off ...
A few comments every now and then or a simple progress bar to tell how far the work has gone would be nice.
I wont denie am allways looking out for new CMS's but I have a few SD licenses and I like the SD product verry much.
We might not need Subdreamer 3 ASAP but a small update to Sd2.6 wich is allready verry stable and only needs some minor fixing, would give us somthing to work with and be a good injection for the community.
I upgraded my SD last desmeber just to show my support and to give some money to the project.
I think more users should do the same. We will be rewarded in the end with a good ongoing community and product.
I wont give up easyle on Subdreamer and I will stick with it at least throug out this year.
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Writing the above post led to a conversation with a couple friends of mine - both active webmasters over a combined 15 or so sites. They are not SD fans and brought up a good point that the SD dev team should consider...
To build a small personal web site with a few pages and not much content takes less than an afternoon. Someone that wants to get fancy with this type of site may buy SD. It is easy to build a site with - easy to walk away and start over if SD goes away.
People building sites with the intention of 500+ registered members and integration to a forum package and other applications have a totally different set of concerns. These people are willing to give up features and functions if they know two things: (1) The site is secure, and (2) The products used are actively being developed and keeping pace with technology.
SubDreamer is in a tough place. For the personal site it is expensive given the many free, well supported alternatives like Joomla. For the larger sites, given the long periods of silence, there is just no way to justify starting a site today with SD. Most of the remaining customers are ones that have a vested interest - like me - in an existing site with custom coding.
I do not know the personal situation of the owners of SD. I strongly suspect that SD does not pay the bills. Could it though? Through advertising, getting the word out, releasing updates more frequently and generating sales..? Bring back the warm and fuzzy feeling that you love us...please?
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Old 04-07-2009, 01:01 AM #12
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I run a website using SD mostly as a nice looking shell/frontpage with almost all my content based on my vBulletin-forum. So far I've been happy with SD, but the lack of visible improvement/development is beginning to get at me.
I've noticed that the coming vBulletin 4.0. will move more in the direction af an actual CMS-system, which of cause will make me consider my future on the SD-platform, unless something positive will happen. The lack of information on a regular basis is unsettling.
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Old 04-12-2009, 08:42 PM #13
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My license expired and I didn't get any major software updates during the whole year. I won't update my license until the SD3 come out.
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Old 04-25-2009, 02:08 AM #14
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Thats a Good Idea.......ditto!
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Old 04-28-2009, 12:57 AM #15
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That's what I'll do, too! The lack of information about the future of SD is killing me. I allready thought about changing the CMS ...
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Old 04-29-2009, 05:02 AM #16
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Elvis,
Im already past the thinking stage
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Old 04-29-2009, 07:28 AM #17
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Elvis,
Im already past the thinking stage
How's your Drupal-powered website coming along?
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Old 04-29-2009, 09:31 AM #18
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Amazing.
Should have started there , instead of ending up there, if you know what I mean
I still have a few running Subdreamer, but they will suffer the same fate im afraid.
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Old 04-29-2009, 10:29 AM #19
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Amazing.
Should have started there , instead of ending up there, if you know what I mean
I still have a few running Subdreamer, but they will suffer the same fate im afraid.
I am switching most of my websites to Wordpress instead.
I don't know about you but I'm kind of tired for paying for custom-built plugins.
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Old 04-29-2009, 03:28 PM #20
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I've looked at other CMS's and solutions, but didn't come up with any in my opinion, to many of them were basically blogs with more features, and I wouldn't really call that a cms. Where as subdreamer you have full control.
Things like wordpress, drupal and many others are all pretty much article management with lots of extras to give it more abilities, but in the end I didn't find it to be a actual CMS, like subdreamer is....
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If I had several businesses dependent on the CMS, I would say the exact same thing too.
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Old 04-29-2009, 05:40 PM #22
TheOffspring
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Originally Posted by signalzero View Post
If I had several businesses dependent on the CMS, I would say the exact same thing too.
signalzero did it for the LULz!
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Old 04-29-2009, 10:26 PM #23
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I actually only have 1 sector of my comapny that relies on it. So its not several, and no I was being honest.
Wordpress, Drupal and many others, don't give you content control that you have in subdreamer. Such as choosing where the content goes on every page. Most of them felt like Article Management/blogs with a lot of added features. I've tried many. Also that is not the case with all of them though, but on a usability standpoint (ease of use), subdreamer is far superior. Like Joomla I would not consider in the Article Management/blogs, whereas its more a true CMS, like subdreamer. Expect its a pain to use in comparison. And don't give me that excuse just because I have vested interest. I do and thats not a lie. But at least with the dozen or so CMS, I didn't find many that were what I would call a CMS (as I've stated before). Most of my business is through hosting, and I do love subdreamer.
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Old 04-30-2009, 04:50 AM #24
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I have to agree with steven. I have looked at others in a full comparision and I keep coming back to SD. But I have spent alot of time creating extra plugins and mods to be better than the other CMS's
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Old 04-30-2009, 05:13 AM #25
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You have your opinion and it wasn't an excuse.
I have a site up on another CMS, and have been playing with it for some time now. I think having 5 subdreamer sites give me the advantage of knowing what it can and can not do.
I will say in no way can it compare to what Drupal can do. CCK ( Content Creation Kit ) and Taxonomy is a very very power combination and does way more. Until you use it and understand it, just comparing it doesn't do it justice.
Ease of use , Subdreamer is by far easier to use, I wont argue that. At a certain point, you need to get under the hood and see what power it has and what it can do. I certainly can do more, with alot less hacking and tweaking than I ever could do in SD. I also have had some HUGE modules written that can do what SD cant.
We wont even discuss the amount of plugins and bridges available compared to SD.
This isnt a slam against anyone, its a honest , open review. SD has its place , and for me , my subscription has expired, and I see a huge gap in development and a severe lack of open , honest communication from the company.
If I were in your position , I too would be concerned that you are running a business mostly dependent on this CMS. The end user needs a CMS that also grows and matures , and this one is NOT. Mine has had 6 releases this year alone, how many has SD had ?
Don't think I am the lone voice. In this economic climate, people aren't going to pay for things that don't work, or that aren't progressing as they should.
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Old Today, 07:31 AM #26
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a 100 years ago the horse was far superior to any other means of transportation.. see what happened to that. CRT was far superior to LCD, see what happened. Big gasoline gusting cars where superior, look what most drive these days.
Result earned in the past do not guarantee the future. You are as good as you last product it is as simple as that.
A product can be as good as it is but if not sustained, supported and maintained then it is like pulling a dead horse,failure imminent.
All i see at this forum and the .com is vanishing posts, vague promises on new releases (started somewhere early 2007 as far as i can track back!!!) and many many many deleted threads, posts with people that never post again, weird. Noticed a Hotscript revue, well hmm not very good at all
donderdag 19 maart 2009
Hmm noticed...
I was just browsing the forums and noticed that besides threads are still being locked and SD is getting very good at avoiding difficult questions there is less and less answers given. I noticed last few answer from anyone from SD where from Brent himself. Makes me wonder what the dev's are doing.. are there any dev's?
Someone stated it nicely.. "i have been paying for a year for updates.... but there haven't been any updates..."
The same goes for me, paying without getting something does not seem right. Granted it is a small company but is a company also a company when it only consists of 1 person?
To code to 3.0 or not to code to 3.0 that IS the question ;)
Someone stated it nicely.. "i have been paying for a year for updates.... but there haven't been any updates..."
The same goes for me, paying without getting something does not seem right. Granted it is a small company but is a company also a company when it only consists of 1 person?
To code to 3.0 or not to code to 3.0 that IS the question ;)
Abonneren op:
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